 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Filettofish
Date: 2014-08-08 05:09
So I've owned my Buffet R13 for about 5 months now, I love it and it is still in great condition. It is a nickel key model, and being that the clarinet is older (1982) and my hands are very acidic, I can see that the nickel plating on the keys is degrading. What do you guys do to keep your keys in top shape? Just some nickel polish? Thanks!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2014-08-08 11:22
having acidic sweat, then polishing keys is like brushing your teeth right after drinking a glass of grapefruit juice. Not good.
What you can do is just wipe down the keys with a soft cloth or after playing. Try if applying some or other sort of hand cream prior to playing changes your acidic sweat for the better.
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: luckyclar
Date: 2014-08-08 11:55
My new backun protege's G# throat key and E/B left pinky has started changing color, looking bit dull. I just got the instrument a month ago tying to "break it" playing only 15-30 mins a day. Although I keep the instrument very tidy and clean, I was leaving it few minutes on the stand while taking small pauses and I guess my sweat is also very acidic (which wasn't an issue on my silver plated Yamaha 450)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-08 13:07
Ditto, wipe the keys with a cotton cloth (I use 100% cotton flannel). You DON'T want to use polishing cloths because they take off fine layers of material which will only speed up the degradation (though temporarily making things look better for only the short term).
There is no cure for the 'super sweat.' However, one thing to consider for the future perhaps, is that gold is highly resistant to corrosion. And if you don't like the aesthetic of yellow gold, Chadash (for example) can plate his clarinets in 'white gold' (has a percentage of platinum).
..............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-08-08 14:07
Nickel plate will turn grey and that's difficult to remove unless you machine polish the plating.
Sometimes there are surprises - I worked on an old nickel plated Adler soprano sax which had some masking tape stuck to it. On removing the masking tape the area in contact with it was bright and shiny in contrast to the rest of it which was dull grey, so stick a piece of masking tape on tarnished nickel plate to see if that does anything.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2014-08-08 14:53
Chris - what do you think, did the masking tape prevent the key from tarnishing, or did it actually remove it?
PS - if you have awfully acidic hands: You may try if lacquering the touchpieces helps any. Of course, you may wear through the lacquer over time, but it won't do no harm to the plating, and you can reapply it every couple of months.
I have one specimen where the nickel plate started flaking off, showing the copper underneath. I put some clear nail varnish over it. Now it's smooth as a baby's butt again. Takes several months to wear down and is touched-up within a couple of seconds.
Just a thought...
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-08 16:00
I would NOT recommend putting any coatings on the key, particularly nail polish. The feel of this and other such coatings is tacky and would preclude good technique most notably 'sliding' off the pinky keys.
..........Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-08-08 16:29
Are clarinets not still made with unplated keys? It seems to me back in my student days if not more recently, the two choices were unplated nickel-silver ("German" silver) and silver plate. Unplated keys would at least be more easily buffed clean without having to worry about removing plate.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-08-08 16:32
The only unplated or unlacquered instruments on the market are saxes or various brass instruments - clarinets generally have plated keywork nowadays in either nickel, silver, gold, Hamilton plate or black nickel.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-08-08 16:47
It's funny, I hadn't even noticed this when my students have been shopping for clarinets. My 1950s R13 is not plated. I thought they still made some of them that way. Too bad.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2014-08-08 18:58
Assuming the actual key parts are made from "nickel silver" worrying about the nickel plating is a waste of time. However, washing one's hands before playing and wiping off the keywork is a good idea. The quality of electroplating has suffered in the last decade or so due to pollution laws so don't expect any clarinet plating to last very long. Applying Renaissance wax to the touch points periodically is not a bad idea.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-08-08 20:00
Other threads have explored whether we should care whether our keys are shiny or not. I wish I could stop wanting my keys to shine- that would save me a lot of (apparently futile) effort and angst.
My new Arioso came to me last year with the register key and several others already blackened, and that is apparently how they want to stay. I've restored the silvery (nickel) gloss a couple of times with Maas polish, but even with a daily wipe down after play, it doesn't last.
I would LOVE to know a reasonable protocol for keeping my keys shiny, or a pill I could take that would make me quit caring.
If keys are going to eventually be completely black, why not make them that way in the first place? Grumble grumble.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2014-08-08 20:26
"Are clarinets not still made with unplated keys? It seems to me back in my student days if not more recently, the two choices were unplated nickel-silver ("German" silver) and silver plate. Unplated keys would at least be more easily buffed clean without having to worry about removing plate."
Many companies offer clarinets with keys made of un-plated silver. My friend's Yamaha 650 has silver key work and I must say I'm impressed with the fact that even after several years of continuous use the keys are still shiny.
About half of my personal clarinets have un-plated nickel silver keys. In my opinion, having to polish the keys every month or so is much easier than getting them re-plated
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-08-08 20:34
Right. So we have a couple of ways to make keys that do not change appearance with use... gold, or solid silver. Anything else will show the use unless the user does something to avoid or reverse it. And that something varies from no big deal to pretty much impossible.
BobD, do you think that if I repolish my Arioso keys to perfection (Mass) and then apply Renaissance polish (which I see on eBay), they'll stay bright? That would make me very happy.
BTW... it is a royal pain to polish ring keys, and to clean the polish off them afterwards. And they are the first to blacken.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2014-08-08 20:41)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ErezK
Date: 2014-08-08 21:03
Leslie Craven mentioned nail polish (on the keys...) in his review of the Ridenour clarinets, I haven't tried it, I am just reiterating his tip.
I have pretty acidic sweat in my fingers and after many years, the plating on my R13 was in a not so great shape. When I had it overhauled by Daniel Deitch, he suggested to have the keywork replated in silver. It was sent it to a flute factory in Indiana, it took a while, and was not cheap but not prohibitly expensive either. It came out beautiful.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ErezK
Date: 2014-08-08 21:03
Leslie Craven mentioned nail polish (on the keys...) in his review of the Ridenour clarinets, I haven't tried it, I am just reiterating his tip.
I have pretty acidic sweat in my fingers and after many years, the plating on my R13 was in a not so great shape. When I had it overhauled by Daniel Deitch, he suggested to have the keywork replated in silver. It was sent it to a flute factory in Indiana, it took a while, and was not cheap but not prohibitly expensive either. It came out beautiful.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MichaelW
Date: 2014-08-08 21:09
Attachment: Auszinken.jpg (113k)
It isa pity indeed that keys aren’t made of unplated German silver any more. Some of my 100 to 130 years old clarinets apparently had been stored in an improper environment for a long time and were badly dezincified. I cleaned them with a rotating brass brush, polished them, and think they look almost like new (see photo). That was certainly easier and cheaper than replating. Of course I don’t play the old ones regularly, but in the cabinet the metal surfaces don’t degrade for months.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-08-08 21:15
Another advantage to unplated keys was that repair people could smooth off a tool mark if one was made. With plate, removing a mark also removes plate.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2014-08-08 21:53
I wonder if stainless steel might be a good material for keywork? I think it is hard to solder or weld (maybe dangerous, actually) ... but could last a long time ...
I have problems with excessive wear of nickle plating on ALL my instruments, but my Yamaha YCL62/65 with silver plating held up perfectly!
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-08-09 01:45
Nickel plate is only applied very thinly due to the hardness of the metal which makes it hard wearing on cutting tools, so it will wear through relatively quickly compared to the much thickly applied silver plate.
Nickel plate is usually applied as an undercoat for silver due to its molecular smoothness which provides a good layer for good quality silver plating compared to a copper flash (usually applied to the base metal before nickel plate) which is very rough at a molecular level.
Gold plate is also applied only to a maximum of around 3 microns due to the cost of gold, so again that will wear though over time but has the advantage over silver and nickel in that it's less likely to cause allergic reactions with some people who are prone to metal allergies.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2014-08-09 17:03
The above medical advice should be taken with a pinch of salt. Silver plate is no answer for anyone who suffers from an obsession with the appearance of the keywork. Besides, the silver sulfide stinks. Using any metal polish on assembled keywork will most likely eventually cause friction in moving parts.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-08-09 17:19
I just use an old T-shirt to wipe down silver plate after playing, or a silvercloth every now and then to bring up the shine. But I'm lucky in that I don't have excessively corrosive perspiration.
During playing I keep a black flannel on my knee to wipe my hands and keywork down with if my hands do get sweaty. The reason why I use a black flannel is so its not as conspicuous as a red or any pale coloured flannel during a concert.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-08-09 22:46
Well, yesterday I polished with Mass for a while, got most of the black off the bigger keys (crows foot and LH levers, A, Ab, and register keys). Didn't bother with the blackened rings, they don't show from any distance. Then I coated those areas with clear nail polish (actually "base") from DD. It's a tad crinkly looking but only very close up. And I feel no difference in playing.
So, if after several weeks there is no change, I'll have my new regimen. If they retarnish anyway, or if the coating develops some issue not easily fixed with a recoat, then I'll still be trying to figure it out.
After I read Leslie Craven's statement that he completely covered the keys of 2 (or 3?) Lyriques with "nail varnish", and just renews it as needed... I figured if that's good enough for a player of his level, it's good enough for me.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
