 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2014-08-06 03:10
Hello everyone,
I recently read somewhere that there were clarinets made in the key of E natural. After some research I have discovered that there is a clarinet in the Shackleton collection that is described as being in the key of E. I've also found mention of an alto clarinet in E natural. Where there actually clarinets built in the key of E natural or are these just high pitched Eb clarinets?
Also is there any music written for clarinet in E natural?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Neil
Date: 2014-08-06 06:14
I had a friend who bought a Chinese soprano sax and found it played half tone off. If the same company makes Eb clarinets with the same degree of precision, there could be some E natural clarinets out there.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2014-08-06 06:14
Full question 1: Not that anyone knows of evidently - post a picture of one and prove everyone wrong!
Full question 2: I would be hundreds of pieces of music that there has never been a serious piece written for clarinet in E-nat.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2014-08-06 07:20
Put a short barrel on an Eb clarinet and there you have it, a E natural clarinet.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BartHx
Date: 2014-08-06 07:47
Given that changing the length of the barrel does not have an equal impact on all pitches, what would that do to the playability of the instrument if the change were enough to make a half step difference at one pitch?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2014-08-06 08:33
An E flat clarinet at high pitch would sound like a clarinet in E at modern pitch?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dibbs
Date: 2014-08-06 13:06
If that's Shackelton's own classification I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it as a high pitched Eb.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-08-06 14:31
A High Pitch Eb clarinet (452Hz) will be in between an Eb and E clarinet.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dibbs
Date: 2014-08-06 17:42
Here it is:
http://www.mimo-international.com/MIMO/search.aspx?instance=Exploitation&SC=DEFAULT&QUERY=clarinet+in+E#/Detail/(query:(Id:'58_OFFSET_0',Index:59,NBResults:60,SearchQuery:(CloudTerms:!(),ForceSearch:!t,Page:4,QueryString:'clarinet%20%22nominal%20pitch:%20e%22',ResultSize:12,ScenarioCode:DEFAULT,SearchLabel:'',SortField:Author_sort,SortOrder:0,TemplateParams:(Scenario:'',Scope:'',Size:!n,Source:'',Support:''))))
It has "E" stamped on both body parts.
Post Edited (2014-08-07 13:02)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-08-06 18:19
Always made me laugh whenever I saw an S-Klarinet listed on German eBay.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-08-06 20:20
B means Bb in German - H is German for B natural.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-08-07 02:44
Hi Dibbs, That's a really useless link, it just shows a couple of more links directing you back to Clarinet BB.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dibbs
Date: 2014-08-07 13:02
I can't make it work properly. Here's what it says.
Clarinet. Nominal pitch: E.
Circa 1850
Britain or Belgium
University of Edinburgh
Wind instruments / Clarinets / Clarinet
Description : Technical description: Rosewood with german silver ferrules and keywork. Five pieces: mouthpiece, barrel, upper section, lower section, bell. Ebonite mouthpiece with a ligature does not fit in barrel. Curved speaker with chimney on front of the instrument. Long tailed throat A♭ indicates that the clarinet was made for the British market. End pivoted F₃/C₅. 12 keys, 2 rings. L0: T; speaker. L1: T; throat A♮. L2: T; throat A♭. L3: T; cross E♭₄/B♭₅. L4: C♯₄/G♯₅; E₃/B♮₄; F♯₃/C♯₅. R1: T; side F₄/C₆; side trill key for throat A-B♮ and B♭-C. R2: T + spectacle. R3: T + spectacle (forked B♭₃/F♮₅); cross B♭₃/F♮₅. R4: G♯₃/E♭₅; F₃/C₅. Keymount type: screwed in pillars. Keyhead type: shallow cup. Repair History: Repaired crack in barrel.
Inscriptions : Inscribed on upper and lower section "E"; on lower section "54".
Measurements : 415, 475 with mouthpiece.
... and here's a picture (if it works) http://www.mimo-international.com/mimo/image.ashx?q=http://194.250.19.151/media/UEDIN/IMAGE/0036481d.jpg
As Chris says, B is German for Bb, but E is NOT German for Eb.
Post Edited (2014-08-07 13:05)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-08-07 16:47
Es is German for Eb if anyone was still wondering - hence the 'S-Klarinet'.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sparq
Date: 2021-12-08 04:47
I seem to have acquired a Penzel 18/7 in E natural, pitched to A=435.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2021-12-08 05:45
If it’s Boehm system it’s almost certainly a HP Eb. Since making this post I’ve learned that the source about the “E” alto clarinet is wrong and I am seriously doubting that the instrument in the Shackleton collection is in E. I actually have a similar HP Eb that could approximate E at 435. Given this I am very skeptical that an E clarinet has ever existed. Especially if it’s an instrument from the 19th or 20th centuries.
-JDbassplayer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sparq
Date: 2021-12-08 08:05
I retested to the proper High Pitch frequency (A=457) and my clarinet tunes properly as an Eb clarinet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-12-09 04:25
There was a boxed set of Buffet soprano clarinets (Boehm system with wraparound speaker keys) on eBay several years back in A, Bb, B natural, C and Db.
Maybe they also did a set in D, Eb, E, F and Gb ...
... possibly culminating in the sopranino G and Ab clarinets.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2021-12-09 04:25)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2021-12-09 16:31
I've got a beautiful C clarinet (Albert system) in great condition... That plays in the key of C# (so, a HP C clarinet). There are examples of music written for a clarinet in B natural ("H") but they are exceedingly rare. Every one of the B natural clarinets I've encountered (AND I'm married to a lady with a collection of 80 historical clarinets, in addition to my own experience) has been a high pitch Bb, though obviously B natural clarinets must exist somewhere (as Chris P demonstrates).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: prigault
Date: 2021-12-09 18:44
donald wrote:
>...AND I'm married to a lady with a collection of 80 historical clarinets...
You found the one!
Can one think of a more perfect fairy tale opening than:
Once upon a time lived a princess with a collection of 80 historical clarinets. ...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: maxopf
Date: 2021-12-09 21:07
Way back in high school I was playing with the all-state band and ended up volunteering to play alto clarinet on Lincolnshire Posy. They brought me an older Buffet alto clarinet from a local college, and to my surprise it played in E natural. I've always wondered since then whether Buffet made high-pitched alto clarinets at one point, if it was some freakish adjustment problem (it seemed to be playing well otherwise, and the scale was even, though), or if it was truly pitched in E.
Needless to say they had to find me another alto clarinet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2021-12-09 21:33
Attachment: 28D5EEE6-E376-49D9-BC67-B63BC7411FF1.jpeg (644k)
That’s funny that you brought that up Maxopf, I actually used to own a Buffet alto that was also around a semitone sharp made in 1950. Originally I suspected that it was HP, but after experimenting with it a bit I found that the neck was simply too short. I replaced it with a neck from a later 1960s Buffet and it played perfectly after that with great intonation. I’ve also talked to someone with a similar alto so it seems it was just bad design...
-JDbassplayer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Enatural
Date: 2021-12-15 22:26
Attachment: E and Eb clarinet.jpg (593k)
I had been looking for the fabled E natural clarinet for several years, without any real success. Then last year I found an instrument made by Jan Blum Prague, it must be pre war a Czech maker but I have not been able to identify him in the internet.
Then the problem started straight away, almost everything written for clarinet is in Bb or Eb, so transpositions are to distant keys, on the clarinet if you play an open G4 , you get a B4. As nobody believes that E clarinets exist the problem of transpositions are never tackled, everyone knows that you cannot play in tune with an out of tune instrument. But that's no problem a chart can solve that, or any music-score type program. To transpose by sight that's just a bit harder.
Obviously the small mouthpiece is to small to take a standard Eb reed, all my other small mouthpieces bar one took the Eb reed, but the old procedure with the side cutters soon sorted that out. Then I was lucky enough to find a shop that sold the sopranino Eb sax reed, that was the correct size. The guy in the shop said that I was the first person ever to buy this size reed, and said nobody plays this.
I like the sound of the instrument and it felt good to have found my prize that cannot exist.
However, as has been mentioned in this theme there is very little music written for the E instrument, and there are very few identified in museums. When it was made a different reference tuning system existed. So the chance of me finding a clarinet made pre war in the modern key of E is quite unlikely.
I had already collected some HP Eb clarinets and others that may be other strange keys, in the photo.
I have also shown a photo of a normal Amati Eb clarinet alongside my Jan Blum Prague instrument, as can be seen the one on the left is significantly shorter.
So although clarinets exist that plays like an E natural, they must be something different.
But what?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
