 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: herniemusic
Date: 2014-08-04 05:07
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Hello, I'm new to this post, and actually what attracted me to it was that through some of the posts I have been able to make out what my antique clarinet is: an Albert system instrument. And a Buffet Crampon at that. It was being offered for sale by one antiques dealer and I just couldn't resist it, also the price was very low. You will see that it's in unplayable condition, but it's old and in very original condition: it even has the music part clip for playing in bands. I submit some of the photos to see if anyone can give an approximate date of construction of this instrument.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-08-04 05:52
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How funny, I just picked up a similar clarinet under the same circumstances a few days ago (for sale at an antiques dealer, low price); I wouldn't be surprised if it was my post you were looking at to determine it was an Albert system.
Given that the keywork is very similar to mine, perhaps it could also be from the late 1800s or early 1900s? Not sure about an exact date, though. Does it have a serial number on it?
You could bring it to an experienced woodwind repair specialist to get it overhauled so it's playable again. The fingerings are different from modern Boehm (they're like modern Oehler fingerings), but once you get the hang of it, they're fun to play. Mine's a High-Pitched instrument, so it's not compatible with modern groups, but as long as yours plays at A=440 you could theoretically play it in an ensemble.
I've attached a couple of pictures of my Albert system clarinet for comparison. Notice how neither yours nor mine have rollers between the pinky keys, whereas later Albert system clarinets did.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2014-08-04 07:22
Does it have a serial number? It will be on the back, usually at the bottom of the upper joint. If it's hard to read, scrub the area with an old, damp toothbrush.
Ken Shaw
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2014-08-04 07:45
I went in a different direction.
I looked at the reed
I think the first line reads (lol) Lefevre
The second is Soliste
Buffet Crampton Vintage"Soliste" Saxaphone Reeds (Tenor and C Melody)
from
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buffet-Crampton-Vintage-Soliste-Saxaphone-Reeds-Tenor-and-C-Melody-/261494776593
PS how do you post a url
fsbsde@yahoo.com
Post Edited (2014-08-04 07:47)
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Author: herniemusic
Date: 2014-08-04 16:36
Dear fellow clarinetists, thank you all for your interest! It does not have a serial number. Yes, Max, I noticed it has no rollers btw the lower keys, you were right in pointing it out. Also it is so worn and old that my guess is, it would be fairly impractical to have it restored, also possibly a crime, as it's so original (down to the reed as you have noted). All parts look original and of similar age. It has various cracks in places, so again, it's not worth restoring and besides it would mess my fingerings no end (I also play the flute)!. For the moment, it looks just nice in its resting place above my bookshelf, and it keeps me company!
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2014-08-04 18:43
That reed has "A. Lefevres" on the first line. That was just a trade name for imports to the US & not necessarily anything to do with Buffet-Crampon. The horn itself likely dates to late C19 - very early C20.
PS don't try to use the music holder socket - you'll go permanently cross-eyed. Looks like some hacker at one point needed to put a ring on the barrel and that was all he could find.
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Author: herniemusic
Date: 2014-08-05 03:54
Ok, Chris, warning heeded! Did not intend to use the clarinet either...as explained on previous post. My aim is to buy a new Buffet horn sometime soon, to supersede my YCL34 which has been very good through my initial learning process...
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2014-08-06 01:38
Lame leading the blind? The addition of two R/H ring keys does not ipso facto make a Mueller system clarinet into an Albert system! Both Oskar Kroll and Rendall have chronicled the addition of the two ring keys, both by Sax and, with Mueller's collaboration, by Heckel. I own and perform on a circa 1897 Albert system Thibouville clarinet; another player in my band (Newberry's Victorian Cornet Band) performed on a Mueller system by the same maker. Your clarinet is far closer to the latter.
Post Edited (2014-08-06 01:42)
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-08-06 07:11
LarryBocaner: What are the major differences between a Mueller and an Albert system clarinet? I'm not so familiar with the older systems. I'd be curious to know if mine is really an Albert system or if it's actually a Mueller system (it's a very similar instrument to that of the original poster of this thread.)
Post Edited (2014-08-06 07:14)
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2014-08-06 18:45
Max, there are folks who are a lot more knowledgeable about vintage clarinets than I am. However, Albert system -- and later, Oehler -- are developments of the Mueller. Just when a Mueller system clarinet became an Albert is a bit fuzzy in my mind. However, for me, an Albert clarinet has ring keys on both hands, probably has a patent F#/C# mechanism. I wish I could attach photos of mine; unfortunately it's currently on loan to another player.
I'm 99% sure both of the instuments pictured on this thread are Mueller system. Calling every instrument that is not a "Boehm system" an "Albert" is a frequent mistake.
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2014-08-06 19:30
While Albert, in Brussels, did make additions and alterations to the Mueller Omnitonique 13-key, so did many others in Europe. The term "Albert system" came to be used as a generic term for Non-Boehm/Klose horns in France, Britain, USA etc. Almost identical horns were and are still made in Central Europe (and other places such as Japan and China) as "german system" instruments which seems to include everything that is not specifically an Oehler clarinet (identified by a Griffplatte in place of the 2RH ring.
The subject horn of this thread is what many (myself included) would refer to as a "simple system" clarinet rather than an "Albert system".
"Albert" has become such a generic term for non-Boehm that it encompasses anything up to six rings under the name "improved Albert" - such as the famous Selmers. I have here a 1924 Conn which has 5 rings and 19 keys including 4 RH trill keys as on a Boehm. Still Conn referred to it as an Albert clarinet. Whatever the term may actually mean I think it likely Buffet referred to the horn here in question as an Albert system instrument.
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2014-08-09 18:01
reading further reveals that Albert did some redesign and patented a version of the 13 key clarinet with Brille and the patent C# designed by Tyler. So it seems that this is what an Albert clarinet is.
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Author: herniemusic
Date: 2014-08-16 05:44
I have been reading your comments on my clarinet with much interest and, really, cannot help to congratulate you guys for being so knowledgeable (and sharing!), and would do likewise to myself, for registering to this excellent site of debate. Hats off to you, gentlemen!
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Author: BobD
Date: 2014-08-16 16:55
....and the mouthpiece looks like it could be made from wood......
Bob Draznik
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