 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-06-27 08:11
Attachment: IMG_1136.jpg (519k)
Hello,
Earlier today I tried making a string ligature, and I ended up really liking the tone of it. The string I initially used frayed too easily, so at the suggestion of someone on this message board, I went out and bought some shoelace to use. The material works great, but it seems the standard shoelace length is too short; I was only able to make around 7 or 8 loops around the mouthpiece before running out of shoelace (picture attached). For anyone else out there who has experience using a string ligature, what material do you use, and where do you get it? I've seen one or two websites that sell clarinet-specific string, but they charge $20-something shipping for a $2 piece of string since they're shipping from Germany to the US.
Thanks,
Max
Post Edited (2014-06-27 08:15)
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2014-06-27 08:23
Do you really believe that ligatures make a difference ? Get real !!!!
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2014-06-27 08:43
Alan: Yes! Ligatures make a difference! Get informed!
Max: I have had great success with a huge bundle from a craft store that I got for $2
AAAClarinet
p.s. do I smell a war
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-06-27 08:44
I always assumed they didn't make a difference. However, a while back I was having issues with stuffy tone, and no changes in my embouchure seemed to correct it. One day my clarinet teacher randomly tried swapping out my Rovner Versa X for her Vandoren Optimum, and my dad immediately called out from the other end of her apartment "What did you do differently?"
(Not to say that the Rovner couldn't work with any setup, but it didn't work out with mine.)
Post Edited (2014-06-27 08:52)
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-06-27 08:50
AAAClarinet: A huge bundle of shoelace, or some other material? Which craft store did you go to? I just checked out a Michaels earlier today, but all I could find was knitting yarn.
I've also just found extra-long shoelace online (≈2x the length I have now), so maybe I'll just order it. I've got some twine-like material that I might give a go as well, but I feel like the shoelace might hold up better.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-06-27 10:45
Oh, ok. I wasn't sure if yarn would be the best thing to use, but maybe I'll give that a try. I'm pretty happy with the shoelace though.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-06-27 12:14
I have found (readily available at well stocked fabric stores) that silk, rat-tailed braid works really well (usu. just under 2 yds. per ligature). You can choose from a variety of thicknesses and colors. There is also cotton cord and polyester cord too.
Once you have the length you want, tie knots at the end (to help for a final tug to tighten) and run it through some 100% beeswax to make it slightly tacky.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2014-06-27 15:25
An inventive guy I played with used a strip cut from a bicycle tire inner tube. It was a bit stretchy but worked well and stood up.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: BobD
Date: 2014-06-27 15:53
.....and then there's a pair of rubber O-rings.........
Bob Draznik
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2014-06-27 17:05
For playing faster: Shoe lace from running shoes
For a darker tone: Black shoe lace from black concert shoes
For a bright tone: White shoe lace from white shoes
For a more resonant tone: Copper wire
For a more resonant but brighter tone: Silver wire
For a more resonant but warmer tone: Gold wire
For a more powerful sound: Steel wire
For the most natural tone: String made from organically grown free range hemp plants
For a very high tone: String made from cannabis plants
For better interval jumps: Angora string
For a worse tone: Read this post instead of doing something else
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-06-27 18:47
Aren't you just about fed up with all the equipment naysayers? I know I am. "Ligatures don't make a difference", "ligatures are all the same", "if you think that some ligatures are better than others you're all wet", and other derisive comments too numerous to remember.
What the hell difference does it make? And what difference does it make if the "audience" can't hear the difference (a theory that's never been control-tested)
If it pleases the player, why should others deny that? I know that different ligatures make a difference in my sound and alter the dynamics of the clarion and altissimo registers.
And why shouldn't they? The sound of a woodwind instrument is produced by a vibrating reed. How can anyone say that the thing that holds it in place has no effect whatsoever on the sound it produces?
If you truly believe that ligatures don't make any difference in the sound of your clarinet, are you using an old-fashioned metal ligature with the screws on the bottom of the type that was used in 1920, and you never use, buy, or try another? (I know where my money would be on THAT!)
If that truly is the case my advice would be to ask your ENT man to schedule an audiogram. You're missing a lot.
bruno>
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Author: GBK
Date: 2014-06-27 19:01
Bruno wrote:
> If you truly believe that ligatures don't make any difference
> in the sound of your clarinet, are you using an old-fashioned
> metal ligature with the screws on the bottom of the type that
> was used in 1920
Like the one Stanley Drucker has used for his entire career?
...GBK
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2014-06-27 19:45
Bruno wrote:
> If you truly believe that ligatures don't make any difference
> in the sound of your clarinet, are you using an old-fashioned
> metal ligature with the screws on the bottom of the type that
> was used in 1920
Yes.
> and you never use, buy, or try another? (I know where my money would be on THAT!)
I've tried others occasionally but never found anything better. Some are worse.
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Author: Funfly
Date: 2014-06-27 20:16
I tried a wooden ligature but it wooden work.
I tried a steel ligature but it steel wooden work.
I have just got a tin one and now I tin play well.
Martyn Thatcher Mature Student Cheshire U.K.
Clarinet - Yamaha SE Custom
Alto Sax - Yamaha YAS 480
Guitar - Yamaha FG 375-S
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2014-06-27 20:56
Dibbs: Just to play devil's advocate. If you have tried a variety of ligatures and found some that "are worse", of necessity, that implies that some work better. Maybe you are just fortunate enough to have already found the combination that works best for you.
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Author: TJTG
Date: 2014-06-27 23:09
I have been playing on my optimum for about 12 years. Everything else I try never makes me as happy as I am when I play on my optimum.
Personally I don't like playing with equipment junkies who own and rotate their ligatures, barrels, and mouthpieces for any and every situation. I think we should all find a setup we enjoy and stick to it. Otherwise we always need a crutch to play in whichever condition requires whatever setup... it's silly.
I'd recommend boot laces, they're much longer (some are thicker too) and they'll still have their aglets, unlike yarn. They also tend to be easier to wrap around because they aren't so mushy..... Or try out the Vandoren Klassik.... but the shoelaces will be cheaper.
Klassik:
http://www.wwbw.com/Vandoren-Klassik-Bb-Clarinet-Ligature-and-Cap-470563-i1414800.wwbw
Awesome shoelace site w/ lengths:
http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/availablelengths.htm
Post Edited (2014-06-27 23:21)
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-06-28 00:04
Indeed, AAAClarinet smelled a war. xD
There is something to be said for not fixating on equipment to change your sound - it's mostly in the embouchure, air, etc - but if there's a ligature, etc. that seems to work best for you, why not use it?
I do plan on getting an Optimum that I would use as my main ligature; I was just curious about trying a string ligature since I like the tone. Obviously the Optimum is more efficient to put on the mouthpiece and the sound is probably not descernable from that of a string ligature by anyone other than myself. (The optimum could even be better... I haven't had a chance to compare it to string.)
Kudos to clarnibass and Funfly for their punny responses.
Post Edited (2014-06-28 00:16)
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-06-28 00:20
TJRG: I certainly don't plan on switching my setup for every situation, I'm just looking for one setup that works (Which I've basically found already, I'm just messing around with ligatures). I briefly had a substitute teacher who owned 50-something barrels...
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-06-28 06:00
Attachment: IMG_1138.JPG (481k)
I got some of the rat-tailed braid, and it works quite well, even without the beeswax. It ended up being a little thicker than I expected, but it works anyways.
I've attached a picture.
Post Edited (2014-06-28 06:02)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-06-28 06:41
Attachment: rattail braid cord.jpg (237k)
The rat-tailed braid is a single cord. Called "watch cord" or such sometimes. Yours is quite fancy though.
This was more what I meant.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-06-28 08:28
Oh, I see. The one I got is what they directed me to when I asked for rat-tailed cord; I think it may just be 2 of those cords wrapped together (in which case I could either keep it as-is, or unwrap it and use the single cord.) Anyways, it was only around $3 for 4 yards of it, which can probably make 3-4 ligatures, or 6-8 if I unwrap it.
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-06-29 00:24
Don't we need a mouthpiece whose external surface is grooved?
B>
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-06-29 00:40
If you file a slot (with a round file to match the diameter of the string you're using) around the mouthpiece where the uppermost ligature line is, then that will keep the cord in place so it won't slide up once you begin winding the string on. Just don't file into the side rails too far or you'll ruin the mouthpiece.
German mouthpieces have either a turned ring around them or a slot cut into them depending what the maker prefers to do.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-06-29 00:50
Silversorcerer: That looks more like what I was looking for initially. I'll check the fabric store I found my current string at first and see if they have the kind you got; if they don't have it, I'll email you my address. Thanks for the offer!
Bruno: I think that's ideal, but I've had no problem putting it on a non-grooved mouthpiece. You just have to tie it tight enough that it doesn't slip off too easily.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-06-29 00:52
Chris P: I haven't found the filed slot to be necessary, actually. It probably does help keep it more securely in place, but I've been able to tie the ligature without the slot no problem. I would maybe consider adding the slot if I were using string as my permanent ligature though.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-06-29 01:29
Albert/simple system fingerings can be used on Oehler system as Oehlers are a more developed version of the Albert/simple system keywork.
If you want a mouthpiece cover, use a plastic one designed for alto saxes as they're wider so will fit over the string ligature. Cut a slot in them so they will flex a bit if need be.
I bought some braided cotton string off eBay which works very well as "blattschnur".
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-06-29 02:13
Attachment: IMG_1143.jpg (308k)
Attachment: IMG_1144.jpg (321k)
I usually take the reed off after playing, but for when I need to put down my clarinet for a moment, I have two mouthpiece caps that work quite well with string. The first one came with my Rovner Versa X, and it's quite a bit bigger than an ordinary mouthpiece cap. The second one my teacher lent to me along with a P. Spriggs ligature (which she's letting me borrow until I get my Optimum). I have no idea if it originally came with the Spriggs ligature, but it works well with both Spriggs and string. It doesn't cover the entire mouthpiece, just the tip of the mouthpiece and the reed.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-06-29 06:08
That looks like the way I tie it as well. I'll see if I can get ahold of some of that material around here today or tomorrow.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-06-30 04:10
Silversorcerer: I wasn't able to get ahold of any string like that around here. I will email you in a bit with my address. Thanks again for offering to send me some!
Edit: I don't see your email in your profile. Do you mind posting it here?
Post Edited (2014-06-30 04:42)
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Author: tims
Date: 2014-07-01 06:01
Although I primarily use a metal ligature, there are occasions when I prefer a string ligature. I've used them off and on for 40 years. I found that it makes considerable difference when performing particular works such as the A clarinet solo in the third movement of Pines of Rome. It also seems to help blend well in small ensembles.
What I use is a 36 inch piece of 100% Cotton cord (#96, 7/64in., 2.8mm weight) tying a small knot on each end to prevent fraying. This is a fairly heavy weight cord and might be difficult to find. Try craft stores, especially those that carry macramé supplies. Blended cotton/polyester cord does not hold as well. I always tie the ligature very tight for best effect. Using 100% cotton I have never had problems with securing the ligature on any standard French style mouthpiece.
1. Holding the reed in place with your first finger and the end of the cord with your thumb (reed facing away from you and cord facing you) make two loops around and over the end piece of cord you are holding working your way from top to bottom.
2. Continue wrapping the cord with the top end now held out of the way.
3. On the last loop, take the end and push it under the previous loop to hold it in place. There should be 9 loops total with this weight cord.
4. Both ends of the cord should be on the side opposite the reed. Holding the mouthpiece securely in one hand you can then pull with the other hand on the two ends of the cord to begin tightening.
5. Push the cords down and tight together. Make sure the reed is straight and in the correct position before tightening too much.
I've posted images at: http://ibis-arts.com/ligature.jpg
Post Edited (2014-07-01 06:33)
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-01 06:26
Thanks for the advice! Silversorcerer has offered to send me some similar cord; it's 2mm instead of 2.8 but I don't think that will make much of a difference. I've been using much thicker string so far, which has worked, but sometimes it comes undone because it's too thick.
As for the tying instructions: so you hold the reed away from you throughout the whole process? I've been tying it more or less like this video, with the reed facing up (the difference is that rather than loosening the final loop after it's been tied around the mouthpiece, I just tie it around my thumb to make it loose enough to thread the end through.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt_CJyZRAXI
I've also heard of people placing the beginning of the string on the reed or directly to the side of the reed rather than on the opposite side of the mouthpiece.
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Author: tims
Date: 2014-07-01 06:47
Attachment: Ligature.jpg (47k)
The only problem I find with the video you referenced is that it assumes the string is tight when you are finished winding. The first end of the string is completely covered by the wraps and the other end is very short, making it difficult to grab and pull. If the string is not tight, you might as well use a piece of velcro or a rubber band (though some people swear by both). Also using thinner cord requires many wraps which makes an already time consuming task even more time consuming.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-01 07:03
Oh, I see how you tied it now. Next time I tie mine I'll try that out.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-02 05:09
I messaged you over Facebook yesterday; hopefully the message went through. If not I can try again.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-02 05:15
Oh, I just went on Facebook to try sending another message, and it said "this message will go to Daniel's "Other" folder because you are not friends with him on Facebook". Try looking in your Other folder (wherever that might be.)
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-06 01:50
Attachment: image.jpg (1266k)
Silversorcerer: I received the string in the mail today and it works very well! Thanks for sending it!
Interestingly, it seriously cuts down on the "grunt" problem I had on A clarinet above the staff.
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