 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: cxl
Date: 2014-06-25 20:41
I want to konw the meaning about vandoren MP "lyre".
the difference between M30L and M30,B40 and B40L,5RV and 5RVL
anyone konws the meaning of "lyre"?
les.cxl@gmail.com
Post Edited (2014-06-25 20:49)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-06-25 20:48
This has come up here in the past at least once. The Lyre doesn't *seem* to signify anything specific - there is always a difference in the facing between a non-Lyre and a Lyre version, but the difference is not consistent from one pair to another. I think it only identifies two mouthpieces that are close in playing characteristics but not identical.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-06-25 22:12
I have always found the lay to be LONGER with the Lyre designation. Well, at least on the 5RV and the M30.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-06-25 23:21
Yes, M13, B45 and 5RV are longer in the Lyre version. M30 (according to Vandoren's chart) is 115 and M30 Lyre is 113.5. B40 is 119 and B40 Lyre is 117.5. There are also inconsistent differences in facing length between some pairs, M13 Lyre being shorter that M13, 5RV Lyre longer than 5RV, M30 and M30 Lyre the same length, B40 Lyre longer than B40, B45 and B45 Lyre are the same length.
It would be nice if someone from Vandoren were to provide an explanation decoding what looks like a random hotch-potch or relationships between straight and Lyre versions (and why there are only 5 Lyre versions instead of one for each mouthpiece designation).
Vandoren's chart can be downloaded from http://www.vandoren-en.com/CLARINET-MOUTHPIECES_r8.html (or change the domain name to vandoren-fr.com for anyone more comfortable with French).
Karl
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2014-06-25 23:39
This might be of some help:
http://www.vandoren.fr/en/fprod/Becs%20de%20clarinette%20Sib%20en.pdf
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Author: cxl
Date: 2014-06-26 16:46
Longer lay represent easy blowing or more darker timber?
les.cxl@gmail.com
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Author: cxl
Date: 2014-06-26 16:57
I like the MP which is both good blowing and has dark tone.
Which model should I choose the vandoren MP?
les.cxl@gmail.com
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-06-27 01:22
Vandoren mouthpieces with a "lyre" designation have a longer opening compared to the opening of the non-lyre one. It doesn't significantly alter the sound.
Players always seem to be searching for the holy grail of a "dark" sound in the equipment.
Despite manufacturers' advertising claims, darkness in the sound doesn't come from the mouthpiece and we shouldn't waste our time searching for it there - it comes from realization that that the clarinet bore extends beyond the clarinet into the oral cavity and down into the lungs. Only when you believe that and realize that you can change your sound by their alteration will you begin to develop the sound you seek.
Does anybody seriously think that great players' beautiful clarions and low-register sounds are bought across the counter in a music store or from a mouthpiece maker? A more realistic attitude and much more helpful is that by-and-large a clarinet is a clarinet and we must ourselves painstakingly mold the sounds we make to our ideal.
bruno>
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-06-27 01:55
Bruno wrote:
> Vandoren mouthpieces with a "lyre" designation have a longer
> opening compared to the opening of the non-lyre one. It doesn't
> significantly alter the sound.
The Lyres *aren't* all more open-tipped or longer-curved (see my 2nd post or look at Vandoren's facing chart).
As to whether or not a more open tip (or a longer curve) affects the sound, that's not a simple answer, either. In theory it shouldn't if the blanks being compared are otherwise identical. But if the change in facing allows (or requires) a change in reed strength or profile, it may.
The only way to know how a given mouthpiece will feel and sound is to try it.
Karl
Post Edited (2014-06-27 02:04)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-06-27 03:29
Bruno wrote:
> A more realistic
> attitude and much more helpful is that by-and-large a clarinet
> is a clarinet and we must ourselves painstakingly mold the
> sounds we make to our ideal.
>
Yes, without question. But some mouthpieces make it easier than others to produce what we're after. Mouthpieces tend to support some sound and response characteristics more than others. Once you have a concept formed, the quest is to search for equipment (including mouthpieces) that allow you to produce the sound you want most easily.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-06-27 03:56
For me the differences from Lyre vs. non-Lyre have more to do with whether you are more comfortable with MORE mouthpiece in your mouth (longer lay) or more comfortable with LESS mouthpiece in your mouth (shorter lay).
The depth of sound comes from achieving a certain minimum air pressure level (the more I make the analogy to the tongue as a "valve" either turned on or turned off, the more I believe it) for any given dynamic. Once I've taken a breath my mouth is 'pressurized' like an inflated tire.
Honestly, getting a big beautiful SOUND is easy, ANYONE can do this. It's the music making that is the trick :-)
.........Paul Aviles
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Author: davyd
Date: 2014-06-27 05:54
Somebody once asked me why Van Doren made a Liar brand of mouthpiece. Why would they want players to produce untrue sounds?
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-06-28 22:45
I personally prefer my 5rv lyre to the 5rv that my friend has. It is a little richer.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2014-07-06 21:59
Those measurements of 117.5, 119, 120, etc...what is the unit of measure? Is that in millimeters?
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2014-07-06 23:39
Thanks. So is that referring to the thickness of a certain part of the mouthpiece? I've never understood how mouthpiece dimensions are measured.
Post Edited (2014-07-07 01:19)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-07-07 00:35
It's the tip opening - the distance between the tip of the reed and the tip of the mouthpiece.
The other measurement that's usually cited is Short/Medium Short/Medium/Medium Long/Long (on Vandoren's spec sheet, C (court=short), MC, M, ML, L). That's the distance from the tip of the mouthpiece (and reed) to the point at which the reed and mouthpiece table separate, or curve length. You will also see the length in units, usually from 30 to 38 or 40, that are double the actual curve length in millimeters - a 36 length is 18 mm.
Karl
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-07-07 02:36
Hi Norman Smale. "117.5 = 1.175 mm etc etc"
That's obviously correct but why do they put the decimal point
in the incorrect position?
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2014-07-07 03:04
The only possible thing I can think of is when they name mouthpiece models e.g. the Selmer C85 120 it's just more convenient not to put in any decimal point.
Since virtually every clarinet tip opening in the world lies somewhere between 0.8 mm and 1.5 mm then users assume the actual magnitude will be self evident.
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