 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: saxlite
Date: 2014-05-26 09:18
Selmer S 10-series II. Plays around 20 cents flat on bottom line E thought throat Bb, otherwise well in tune. Have tried numerous mouthpieces and barrels, but all are about the same in the E through Bb area. Can this be remedied by reaming near the top joint entry, or by some other means? I like this instrument, just need to cure this intonation problem.
Jerry
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2014-05-26 18:36
I would suggest first trying a shorter barrel. That will effect those notes more then the lower notes. You may have to pull out the lower joint a little with a shorter barrel and putting some tape in some of the tone holes if some of the other notes become too sharp, especially the other notes in the upper joint. I'd suggest trying one mm shorter and two if necessary. There are so many makes of barrels so you may have to try a few to find what works best. I'd be very cautions to have any bore work done. Anything like that will effect something you may not want to be effected. Flat throat tone notes can usually be fixed with a different barrel, the trick is to find the right one. Many mail order stores will send you several on a trial basis.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: saxlite
Date: 2014-05-27 02:00
I have a shorter barrel and that was the first thing I tried. But, although the entire clarinet tuned higher, the E through Bb area was still very flat compared to rest of the scale. I even have a special barrel that allows trying different shape and diameter bores. Smaller bores seem a little better, but don't come close to solving the problem. Larger bores make things worse and spoil the tone. So, I am guessing that opening up the upper joint near the top may be a solution. Where are the acoustics experts???
Jerry
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-05-27 02:11
I wouldn't alter the bore as that could cause problems elsewhere and won't be easy to rectify.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BartHx
Date: 2014-05-28 07:52
Ed implied a question that you did not answer. Where are the left hand notes in the clarion relative to the rest of the instrument? If they, too, tend to be flat, at least for a temporary fix, you could pull the center joint out to flatten the right hand notes to match. Then get an even shorter barrel to bring the overall pitch up. Keep in mind that the shorter barrel will impact the left hand notes more than the right hand notes. If you are able to find a combination that works, tuning rings in the center joint can help keep it consistent.
Keep in mind that your instrument is going to go sharp as it warms up. We played outdoors at a Memorial Day observance yesterday and were in the sun. We played with our backs to the sun and kept our instruments in our shadows. Even so, we tuned to 442 and still had to pull out four or five times the amount we would use in a concert hall. I assume that you are fully warming up before you check the pitch.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: saxlite
Date: 2014-05-28 08:25
Sorry to say, the left hand clarion notes do not go flat; the upper register is pretty much in tune as I originally stated. As I also stated, I have tried shorter barrels and pulling at the center joint yields no overall improvement. So, I see no easy fix unless a clever barrel or mouthpiece can help. I continue to welcome suggestions.
Jerry
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dibbs
Date: 2014-05-28 12:46
Sell it and buy one that works properly.
saxlite wrote:
> ... I
> continue to welcome suggestions.
>
> Jerry
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jeroen
Date: 2014-05-28 13:29
Dibbs wrote:
> Sell it and buy one that works properly.
Is a good advice.
Selmer 10S II clarinets should have good intonation. Strange that yours has not. However, your description indicates a built-in problem in the instrument that is not that easy to fix.
Try other Selmers like 9, 9*, 10S, 10SII. There are sufficient of them available for reasonable (low) prices.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2014-05-28 15:20
Before contemplating anything drastic it's worth checking whether the relevant pads on the upper joint are venting properly when open. If they aren't lifting far enough and "shading" the tone holes, it can have the effect you describe - and not always mirrored for the equivalent clarion fingerings. If so, the fix is an easy one for a competent tech. A visual check for tight clearances will suggest whether there might be a problem, but won't necessarily prove anything. Depending on how comfortable you are with dismantling (and more importantly reassembling!) your clarinet, you could test whether the tuning improves with the relevant keys/rings removed, stopping the relevant holes by other means.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2014-05-28 16:00
It sounds like most of the left hand notes are fine and only from E to throat Bb there's an issue. Most of those notes are not regular fingerings in the clarion register, only the top clarion B and C are (the rest are alternate fingerings for altissimo).
It is pretty normal for B and C to be sligthly sharp on a lot of clarinets so if raising them with the lower notes can still be ok.
So first thing I would check is the key heights like Hurstfarm suggested.
Another thing that I don't think anyone mentioned, is that this area is the most likely to have tone hole nests. This is dirt that builds around the bottom of the tone holes. It is mostly impossible to see without removing the keys and using a decent light. It is also often not possible to remove using q-tips, etc. If these keys have them then the trill keys are likely to have them too.
I would first thoroughly check those two possible issues before considering other options.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-05-28 18:28
>I have a shorter barrel and that was the first thing I tried. But, although the
> entire clarinet tuned higher, the E through Bb area was still very flat
> compared to rest of the scale. I even have a special barrel that allows trying
> different shape and diameter bores. Smaller bores seem a little better,
> but don't come close to solving the problem. Larger bores make things
> worse and spoil the tone. So, I am guessing that opening up the upper joint
> near the top may be a solution. Where are the acoustics experts???
have you tried to pull in the middle?
here is an article on how to proper tune clarinet:
http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/tuningBb.htm
IMHO I would not ream top joint; undercutting is far more effective. Irregardless, that not something to consider as first step.
1) Tune clarinet proper (as per instruction above)
2) If still issues check/clean toneholes in question
3) if still issues install tuning rings to remove gap in the barrel on MPC side
4) if still install tuning rings to remove gap in the barrel on UJ side
5) if still try shorter/smaller diameter barrel
6) take it to technician for tuning
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
