 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ChiTownClarinet
Date: 2014-05-16 03:38
I recently purchased a Leblanc LL Eb clarinet made c. 1974. It's pitched very high, probably higher than A = 442. I can't even bring it down to 440 by maximally pulling out the barrel.
I measured the barrel (the original one to the instrument) and it's 40 mm. From what I see eefer barrels generally start at 41 mm and go to about 43 mm; I don't even see 40 mm being made anymore.
I have three Clark Forbes barrels on trial from WWBW (41, 42, and 43 mm). However, the barrel and body tenon do not fit; it is extremely loose. The barrels are fine with the mouthpiece (VD 5RV) but it absolutely will not work with the body of the clarinet.
Would a barrel tuning ring help? I'm not exactly sure what they are for. If so, what size would I need and where could I get one? Am I better off to just return the eefer and get a more recent model? I'm worried other barrel models may present the same fit issues.
Thank you!
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2014-05-16 04:09
If you can get a hold of a Robert Scott barrel, they fit tighter than some others (though I do know someone that has a Noblet eefer and the Scott barrel was too tight). Muncy Winds has them. Maybe contact them and WWBW and see what they recommend. There are several barrel makers here that may have some insight as well. If you have some teflon tape, you can wrap that around the cork on the barrel tenon for testing purposes to see if you can find something that helps intonation and you can go from there.
While the eefer generally requires more "tricks" (for lack of a better word that comes to mind) to play in tune with itself and others, you have to know whether this instrument can be worked with or if the intonation is so bad, there's no hope for it.
My eefer is an older Bundy that plays decently in tune with a 44mm Backun tulipwood barrel (and matching bell, though I did have to get the tenon socket bored out to fit since the tenon was too large for the bell socket). Some notes are more in tune than others, but I'm not killing myself adjusting every note wildly. I think it would be even better if I played it more frequently, but I have a lot more opportunities to play bass clarinet than Eb clarinet, so that's what I concentrate on.
I've never played on a LeBlanc LL, so I'm not sure what the best option for that particular instrument is.
Good luck!
----------
Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2014-05-16 11:47
I'm assuming the tuning problem is across the range, not confined to a few wayward notes, which can be a feature of Eb instruments, even expensive ones. A few suggestions to try...
First, look at whether you can get better in tune with your existing equipment by pulling out in more than one place. As well as the barrel, you also have the option of the mouthpiece and the bell. Look for the combination that gives the best balance of intonation across the range.
Next, as a temporary fix for testing, wrap layers of paper over the cork on the top tenon to enable you to fit and try out the Fobes barrels. With luck, one of the longer barrels will fix the problem and give a better idea of your instrument's potential. If the answer is yes, you then have a couple more options. If the loose fit is not too extreme, you could have the top tenon re-corked with thicker cork to take up the slack in much the same way as you did with the paper. The disadvantage is that then your original barrel won't fit. If the fit is too loose for that, you could ask one of the barrel manufacturers to custom make a barrel for you, with a narrower socket to fit your instrument, which is a neater but slightly more costly solution. Backun did this for me for a Leblanc Concerto, which had the same issue.
With regard to tuning rings, all they do is fill in the gap between socket and tenon when you pull out, reducing the space for water to accumulate, and, some would claim, helping to maintain tone and intonation - although whether to any noticeable extent has been debated here. They might have a role to maintain spacing if your standard set-up is to pull out significantly (perhaps under option 1 above), but otherwise my own view, FWIW, is that they're a waste of money!
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-05-16 12:32
you'd need to re-cork on a long run. Plumbers tape over tenon cork works as a semi-temporary solution. You could try something like masking tape, just to seal once it to try barrels.
There are 3 "standards" on Bb (23.1, 23.7, 24), not sure about Eb but there is some variation good luck
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2014-05-16 12:37
I did have the same problems with a Leblanc LL Eb clarinet from about the same age. I've ordered two barrels from Robert Scott (42 and 44mm). I usually use the 44mm one, great sound and intonation... cost less than the "bigger" brands. I also recently bought a Backun Bell with voicing groove, which sounds great and made the intonation easier on this little animal.
I think that you've bought a nice instrument, have fun with it!
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Author: Ed
Date: 2014-05-16 18:23
Use the teflon tape to try them and see what works best. Clark makes great barrels and they should help. If you prefer something different, you can contact Allan Segal and he can make something custom. He does great work and is reasonably priced, easy to work with.
http://www.clarinetconcepts.com
Post Edited (2014-05-16 18:24)
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Author: ChiTownClarinet
Date: 2014-05-19 07:42
THANK YOU ALL for your advice!
I had some bulked up cork placed at the tenon and now the Forbes barrels fit just fine!
My tuning has come down to 440 and I'm lucky because the instrument is surprisingly well in tune with itself.
The Forbes barrel also makes the tone quality a lot better as well (I have no affiliation with Clark Forbes - just really impressed with the barrel).
Have a great week!
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-05-19 20:32
ChiTownClarinet wrote:
>
> My tuning has come down to 440 and I'm lucky because the
> instrument is surprisingly well in tune with itself.
>
so which one you end up with? 43?
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2014-05-19 23:26
It doesn't look very elegant but I have used a BG pad saver to fit between tenon and a loose barrel. It works really well when you want to test before recorking. It absorbs the drool that would otherwise end up on your pads and also creates a decent seal ;-)
Post Edited (2014-05-19 23:27)
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Author: ChiTownClarinet
Date: 2014-05-20 07:23
Cyclopathic: I haven't made a final decision yet but tuning wise I'm between the 42 and the 43 mm. I have a rehearsal with my ensemble this week and we're just starting work on our summer concert. We're doing Candide and this will be my first time playing my eefer with the group so I'll let rehearsal dictate which one I prefer.
Post Edited (2014-05-20 07:29)
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-05-20 15:10
ChiTownClarinet wrote:
> Cyclopathic: I haven't made a final decision yet but tuning
> wise I'm between the 42 and the 43 mm. I have a rehearsal with
> my ensemble this week and we're just starting work on our
> summer concert. We're doing Candide and this will be my first
> time playing my eefer with the group so I'll let rehearsal
> dictate which one I prefer.
>
check the temperature. If you are all way in on 43 and you know that you might be playing in cooler room, or could need tuning higher then 440 than 42mm is your size. Also different MPCs if you're using more then one. Clark Forbes tunes his clarinets to 441 for these reasons good luck
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2014-05-20 15:29
If you choose one of the ill fitting barrels, you can install a tenon cork than covers the entire tenon, not just the groove. It is a two step process. One piece of cork goes into the groove and comes up the the level of the wood. Another thin piece of cork is glued over the entire surface (wood and first piece of cork).
Steve Ocone
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2014-05-21 20:37
Hi All;
Try contacting Clark to have him make you a 42.5, great barrel for almost every venue. I use a FOBES 42.5 at WICKED on Broadway & our pitch is generally 441, so it works just fine. Also have a spare 42 & 43, if affordable.
Good luck,
John
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2014-05-22 00:36
Eflat and C clarinets notoriously have tenon and socket vagaries, even among the same model of instrument. (Worse in wood instruments, to which Tom R. could well attest).
Even custom makers can not assure you a perfect fit from stock or common measurements on the first try...that is what return/exchange agreements are for.
Be sure the seating is good....gaps in length can be fixed with tuning rings, and socket widths should ultimately be addressed by re-corking or by circumferential inserts.
For trial purposes, teflon plumbers tape (ribbon) is ok, or even thin masking tape....but it is not a permanent solution.
Disclaimer....I make and sell, yada yada...
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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