 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: nbclarinet
Date: 2014-05-20 19:37
Hello everyone,
I've seen a few posts on a bunch of different threads regarding tips and tricks for working on V12 reeds and I'm looking to get more advice on how you adjust them. For example, it's pretty well known that they are nearly always harder on the left side...so do you use sandpaper to lighten the whole side, adjust the tip or the shoulder.. Etc.
Essentially, what is your go to procedure when you open a new box of V12s?
Thanks in advance!
Nik
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-05-20 20:22
First, try each reed. Pick the best ones (the ones likely to need the least work).
Next, check by blowing against one side at a time if the reed is balanced. If it is, then play on it for a couple of minutes and put it away (beginning of a break-in routine).
If it's unbalanced, you'll know from the blowing test which side is heavier - less responsive. With the reed moist, run your thumbnail gently along the tip to see if there's a hard spot in the tip itself. If not stay out of the tip.
With slight pressure of a finger (I use my index finger on the hand corresponding to the heavy side of the reed) against the back of the reed while you sight along the vamp, try to find where the reed *suddenly* gets harder, especially compared to the vamp on the other side. It often looks like a wall or a bump where the wood *suddenly* doesn't flex as easily. That bump is what needs to be smoothed out. Work gently over the spot where the bump is - starting below and smoothing toward the tip so you don't replace the bump with a divot.
Go into the tip only if there's a hard spot, and then very carefully - the tip on most commercial reeds is already thin enough. If once the side of the reed flexes so that the resistance is gradual with no sudden change, it's still heavier than the other side, gently begin to work ( a stroke or two at a time) over a longer length of the vamp, keeping between the heart and the side rail areas. Test often.
Don't be too persistent about this the first time the reed is out of the box. You'll waterlog the cane. Stop after a couple of minutes and resume the next day.
Two main points:
(1) this is my approach to any reed - V12, Reserve Classic, GD or anything else. Bad balance is bad balance.
(2) There isn't (imo) a single "go to procedure" in adjusting reeds. You have to try to fix whatever is wrong with the reed you're working on. No two reeds are alike. If you can't fix it, and you can't accommodate it, throw it in the trash and try another.
Karl
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Author: FrankC15
Date: 2014-05-20 20:25
I agree completely. The best thing you can do is purchase the ATG system, go through the instructional material and dive in. As far as tips and tricks....no real tricks to this just work through the process in a logical controlled manner and the results will come. Obviously with the inherent differences in a natural material like cane nothing will be a magic wand, but the ATG system will get you close on the majority of the reeds you may encounter.
Just speaking from experience. I am in no way affiliated with Tom. Just a satisfied customer.
Frank C.
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-05-21 01:45
I respect Karl's opinion, and hope his solutions works for him. The only reason I am responding is because of what I see as somewhat of a paradox: that being that limitations I see in Karl's approach only become apparent (I believe) after first studying what is different about the ATG system.
(Disclaimer: I am friendly with Ted Ridenour but in no way profit from the sale of Ridenour clarinet products. I own an "A" clarinet from Ridenour and love it, as I do the ATG system, both of which I paid full price for.)
It's not my desire to disclose elements of the ATG system to those who don't license its use except to say that the way Tom (Ridenour) looks at a reed is different than anything I've heard or seen prior, and as a result, his methods for addressing a reed's difficiencies are equally, IMHO, unprecendented and brilliant.
In short, a reed transfers the energy you apply to it with breath from the tip and sides to the middle and down the reed's base. This energy transition needs to happen smoothly (it's , BTW, why your reed's vamp is contoured with respect to all the vamp's edges).
Making small scraps (which at that level of thinness are more akin IMHO to gouges) to tiny sections of a reed, I believe, take you further away from smooth energy transfer. Tom's system, and the way his tools are designed and explained, allow you to balance a reed and preserve its contour: which I happen to believe are highly correlated--not 2 separate things.
I thought when Tom first promoted the product and said that people don't believe him when he says he discards very few reeds that something was off. I'm now also disguarding few reeds for anything but being worn out.
That the product pays for itself in reed savings can be quantified, and it's huge. But that the product pays for itself in reducing frustration with reeds can't even be quantified for me.
Please, feel free to search ATG here. No, not every reed out of ATG will be one you do your Curtis audition on. But that's because I feel all your reeds will improve in playability with it.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-05-21 02:11
ThatPerfectReed wrote:
> In short, a reed transfers the energy you apply to it with
> breath from the tip and sides to the middle and down the reed's
> base. This energy transition needs to happen smoothly
>
> Making small scraps (which at that level of thinness are more
> akin IMHO to gouges) to tiny sections of a reed, I believe,
> take you further away from smooth energy transfer.
I may not have made myself clear, since I agree completely that the reed needs to vibrate smoothly over the length of the vamp. The goal, whether you start from the tip, as Tom does with ATG, or toward the tip, as most other techniques do, is to produce a smoothly contoured vamp (no bumps, no divots or, to use your very appropriate word, gouges). The goal in either approach should be to smooth, not introduce points of sudden change. So, we probably don't disagree at all.
My *only* problem with ATG - and it may be that I'm misusing it - is that, because each stroke starts from the tip, the tip ends up too thin by the time areas farther back along the vamp are smoothed out. I consistently end up even after only a few strokes with tips that are too thin for my comfort. I often think I *must* be misusing it, but I don't know in what way.
I do use ATG when I think the tip itself is unbalanced - it finds any high spots and smooths them without gouges more reliably than I find I can do by eye.
Karl
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-05-21 02:38
Karl- I have run into the thinness issue with ATG as well, and may have figured out one of the factors affecting it. (Tom or Ted please chime in and correct or add as you can!)
It is my impression that higher pressure on the tool as you move over the tip affects the tip more. That is, I think that lighter pressure may have a stronger effect further back, relative to the tip. Of course you need more passes to get the same effect- but it isn't really the same. Personally I seem not to be overly thinning the tips so much since I backed off on pressure. Sorry I can't be more scientific about it.
How about it, you other ATG'ers?
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-05-21 03:06
Definitely not as thorough as Tom would be but.....Some of our customers, 5% or less if i was guessing, have found they get better results and solve all or most issues with excessively thinning the tip by using reeds that are a half strength harder than what they normally would use.
Ted R.
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-05-21 03:20
Yes, that's Tom's suggestion in the video, as I remember. Thanks.
Karl
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-05-21 03:43
I respect the findings of those who find their experiences may be talking more off the tip of their reeds than they like. As the name implies, Against the Grain (ATG) removes material from the reed as one approaches the reed from its tip.
By no means do I speak for Ridenour Clarinet Products (RCP) on this but would like to say the following.
Anyone who owns the reed adjusting tool that comes with the kit can certainly vouch for the fact that the abrasive affixed to it--I suspect by design--is contoured such that its lowest point (closest to the reed) is at the midpoint of its longer length's width.
Notice that when Tom hits the reed head on here, http://youtu.be/r5d77k6FENQ?t=5m2s (1 of 5 finishing techniques) he is interfacing the tool with the reed such that 1) the tool's longer length is perpendicular to the reed, and that for this technique 2) he doesn't pass this aforementioned midpoint. This, at least for me, (and I suspect by design), has the abrasive better conform to the increasing thickness of the reed as one makes their way in a direction from the reed's tip to it's base (but by no means gets passed the tip.
This is not only mentioned in the manual, but if you take the time to understand the ideas that led to the tool's shape, I think intuitive.
Are people that report thinned tips passing this midpoint? I hope not. Maybe not.
Were the tool simply a block of wood, I would agree that the reed tip might take a "hard hit" during such Againt The Grain like adjustment. But the tool is designed I suspect to have the abrasive closely match a reed's contour so as to not overthin the tip. I've never used the tool such that its shorter lengths were the first point of contact with the reed, as the aforementioned contour is not maintained in that direction of attack of the reed.
Perhaps pressure and orientation of the tool play a role. All I can say is that when I use the tool, the only vector I'm trying to manipulate is how close or far the tool is from the reed. There is not change to the lightest of pressure applied downward, nor change in the tool's height, angle of attack, i.e. my wrist is locked.
I'd also recommend use of the abrasives Tom suggests, which are no-load and wet/dry. The fomer means that you can in large part flick off wood dust from the abrasive after finishing a reed if need be, even cleaning it with water, and continue on to the next reed--not that the abrasive doesn't require periodic replacement in order to remove reed material, and do so consistently across all sections of the abrasive.
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Author: nbclarinet
Date: 2014-05-21 04:12
I actually have the ATG kit however I find that a knife and or smaller strips of sandpaper work better for me because the Atg makes bigger adjustments that sometimes take off too much material. And I am already using a slightly too hard strength to compensate for adjustments but I use the ATG if a reed is severely unbalanced
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Author: William
Date: 2014-05-21 18:34
I think the best adjustment available for V12's and all cane reeds is the 'Wall Test'.
[disclaimer--I play Forestone reeds that rarely, if ever, need "adjustment" as they are perfectly balanced and maintain their profile regardless of playing time]
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