 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Exiawolf
Date: 2014-03-28 06:23
Greetings!
Recently I have been thinking more and more about my future and plans for college in relation to my passion for music. I am a 4.0 student currently and have skipped over two years of math (Went straight to 9th when I entered Middle School). Currently I'm interested in pursuing a degree in Aerospace Engineering as it seems to be a very promising job field. However I recently have grown a big passion for clarinet playing and music in general. If I were to major in Engineering, how would minoring in Performance/Education/Anything else work? Thanks for all your help! I just personally think that talking to as many people as possible (In person and through the internet) will help to set up the best future possible for me.
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-28 08:32
As you probably realize Quinton, majoring or minoring in anything in college is simply about taking (and being able to complete) the necessary course load of classes to achieve it. One option is to spend more than 4 years as an undergraduate, although not one I recommend. I say this because it's one less year you'll be in the workforce, and one more year you'll be paying for school.
Aerospace Engineering and Musical Performance, if not Music Studies in general, as time is concerned, have much in common: they both require tons of it. Many hours of meaningful time need to be spent each week practicing clarinet, and no doubt there are some very intensive Math, Physics, Mechanics, and even Chemistry classes you'll need to take if you want to specialize in the rockets and propulsion side of Aerospace Engineering. Its, even with your math apptitude, quite a courseload.
You've heard the term, "this isn't rocket science," when people refer to simple things, right? That's because rocket science is anything but simple.
There are many ways to participate in music, especially at larger schools, without coursework. You can play in band, chamber settings, and even take lessons without having music as a defined minor.
Perhaps mine is a cynical view that considers the job market today, both in general and for musicians. I'd say your priority should be with that which finds you work, or is a precursor to graduate studies that find you work, and that it should be work you enjoy.
Former Secretary of Education William Bennett, author of Is College Worth It, found only 150 of 3500 U.S. colleges even worth the money. In the top 10, the first appearance of an Ivy League school (top tier at that) was 5th place. Sadly, it is a tough market where playing clarinet won't be a bullet point on your resume's career experience section.
I know you didn't ask, but I'm going to address the idea of performing arts as a major. My opinion is the people who do it should be virtuosic, or intend on combining that with teaching, or simply can't see themselves doing anything else, or really can't do anything else, or love it and are independently wealthy, and are otherwise enormously devoted.
I'd almost enjoy at this point if you heard a dissenting opinion about music from someone inspirational, rather than pragmatic like me.
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Author: Exiawolf
Date: 2014-03-28 09:12
Thank you, so much for your feedback, That Perfect Reed (Although more from others is greatly appreciated)! And don't worry about me needing to hear it from some one "Very Inspirational".
I see what you mean about both taking alot of time, dedication, and work. So on that note, do the chambers and bands at schools (Such as the University of Arizona) require you to be taking courses in Music to participate in, or would you be auditioned in?
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2014-03-28 05:31
There might be some groups that take only music major/minors. But there will be groups you can audition into.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2014-03-28 10:27
Well, I obtained BS and MS degrees in electrical engineering and also played music most of my life, studying with some great teachers, on a poverty budget. There are no regrets about a career as an electrical engineer and playing a lot of music of all kinds. It is exactly what I wanted to do. Good luck!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2014-03-28 15:47
John Miller, probably the finest bassoonist in the world and principal in the Minnesota Orchestra, has a degree from MIT.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Christopher Bush
Date: 2014-03-28 18:25
Hi Exiawolf,
I think that you'll find that every college/university is different when it comes to how they handle secondary minors or double majors. For instance, some departments in some schools won't allow minors in music, but will allow a double major in music and something else. You would be wise to check into each school in which you are interested to see exactly what your options are in that specific institution.
I can tell you how things run in my department at New York University, where I am on the Clarinet Faculty (in addition to a number of other musical areas) as well as the undergraduate advisor for our woodwind students. Double majors within the Woodwind Performance program are certainly allowed, even encouraged. If someone is still figuring out exactly what they would like to do with their life, double majoring in Clarinet Performance and another academic subject that interests them greatly seems like a pretty smart thing to do.
In many cases, our double majors pay no extra money for the 2nd major. That is accomplished through very careful course selections starting in their very first semester. You would work with your advisor in music and your advisor in the other subject area to make that happen. However, it does work out that some students need to take additional courses during a summer or winter session (Jan), or in an extra term in order to complete all of the requirements from both majors. Extra terms mean extra money, although there are ways to lesson that cost (transferring in courses from other, cheaper schools, for one). Many of the required core course subjects for both majors are exactly the same, as we have an academic plan that all Bachelors students in every major must fulfill. For instance, everyone must take a Math course, a Foreign Language course, a Social Sciences course, and so on. Careful planning from the student, in consultation with her/his advisors can make those courses fulfill the core requirements for both majors while also serving as prerequisites for the more academic major. Double majoring is definitely work-intensive, but it can be both musically fulfilling and economically pragmatic simultaneously.
A note about your musical opportunities if you choose one single major outside of music: You may find that the Music Department in your school must save spots in their performing groups for their performance majors, which may not allow for you to play in any of the better groups at the school. Chamber Music groups, Orchestras, and Wind Ensembles all have different instrumentation requirements and non-majors will tend to be last for consideration as Music majors will need those groups/courses to fulfill their course requirements.
I hope this helps with your questions. I trust that the moderators will let me know if it strayed into a sales pitch instead of answering questions.
Christopher Bush
Prof. of Clarinet - NYU
Princ. Clarinet - Glens Falls Symphony, Metro Chamber Orchestra
Director - NYU Composers Ensemble
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-28 18:33
I don't know the specifics about U of A Quinton, but consider these points.
* There's nothing wrong with contacting the music department there and explaining your situation and see what they say about opportunities for music minors or people simply wishing to be part of music who may do limited if any course work in it.
* You are bound to find just such opportunities at big universities like U of A, more so than at private colleges. (This is not always the case or a dig against private smaller schools, which come with their own perks.)
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2014-03-28 23:39
As Christopher points out, universities vary widely in terms of available programs. Large top-tier state schools, however, often have a wide variety, including ensembles for non-music majors. As far as the University of Arizona is concerned, you can learn about ensembles here:
http://music.arizona.edu/ensembles
See, in particular, "Campus Band" under "Wind Band Studies."
Private lessons on clarinet also appear to be available. See, e.g.,:
https://uaccess.schedule.arizona.edu/psp/uazsaprd2_1/UA_CATALOG/HRMS/c/ESTABLISH_COURSES.SSS_BROWSE_CATLG.GBL
if the link works. If the link doesn't work, find course information by clicking the "Student" tab then looking at "Registering for Classes." From there, you should be able to find the catalog of course descriptions.
You can use a similar search process to find information at other universities, though most colleges and universities are happy to have you call their offices.
Best regards,
jnk
Edit: Ok, my link appears to get you to the catalog but not the specific course. From the catalog select "M" and then "Music Individual Studies" and "Music Main" for course information.
The "Individual Studies" include lessons that don't require an audition (at a good price, I think) but that require membership in a "large conducted ensemble." Campus Band probably qualifies.
Post Edited (2014-03-28 19:48)
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2014-03-29 01:44
I was a chemical engineer major and (intended) music composition minor when I graduated in 2008. I went to Carnegie-Mellon where I made contact with the band director, registered for the ensemble, and auditioned. The previous advice that some ensembles only take music majors is indeed true, especially at large schools, but this is not always true - most schools have this type of information on their websites.
As far as the workload, it's intense. Plainly, it's a lot of classes. There are some common classes but they typically only extend to general ed. courses. I would have had to stay a fifth year to finish the minor, which is why I didn't end up finishing it. The number of courses was high in my school's curriculum - right now they require (for non-music majors) an additional 24 credits (which is 12 classes of varying credit amounts). This on top of the 4-5 classes/semester for my major. It's a high time commitment that I chose not to invest in. Truthfully, you can only answer this question by looking at the two courses of study you're interested in and determining if you have the time to make it work in the time you allow yourself.
If you will be a full time aerospace engineering student, you won't have to pay for whatever music courses you take. Your tuition will cover them since you're full time. The only exception to this might be private lessons but I think Jack covered that above. I played every semester except one in college in our wind ensemble and one semester in a repertoire orchestra.
You'll have to make sure that rehearsal times don't overlap with your other classes - that was the only thing that didn't allow me to play (that one semester).
Congratulations on being intelligent. But college is challenging. Engineering school is really hard at times no matter how easy high school was; hard in a different way from being a clarinet major. It will challenge you; and you'll be held to no less standard than the regular music majors when it comes to the classes you pursue as a minor or the preparedness you'll be expected to maintain in a performing ensemble.
It can be done, but it's no light load. I wish you well with whatever you decide to do - you won't regret it!
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2014-03-30 12:43
>Sadly, it is a tough market where playing clarinet won't be a bullet point on your resume's career experience section.>
Don't be too sure about that. My husband never majored or minored in music, and none of his starving student jobs had to do with music (among other things, he worked as a car mechanic and as a busboy), but he did include his violin studies with three concert-masters and his continuing interest as an amateur chamber musician on his resume. After graduate school, he spent one year in a job that wasn't a good fit. When he looked for a new job, an interviewer surprised him by asking as many questions about his violin background as his academic and employment background.
After we moved and he began this new job, that interviewer got in touch with him and asked if he'd like to get together and play some Mozart. Turned out the guy was an avid amateur pianist who played on a professional level. He understood that serious music study requires many of the same skills the job would require. He and my husband played together for years and through him, my husband met other advanced amateur chamber musicians in the area. He's pretty sure the violin got him that job -- and he stayed in it happily for 28 years.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-30 18:23
Lelia: I'm glad that something your husband loved to do also tangentially helped his career. Sadly, your tale is noteworthy precisely because it is far more the exception than the rule.
For what it's worth, it didn't help me find employment but did tangentially help me in my career, as an internal corporate client of mine shared similar love for classical music.
In this extremely tough job market though, and at the risk of pointing out the obvious, the unemployed not only seek employment, but the employed (specifically those tasked to hire others) seek to remain so, and want to be able to fall back on justification for hiring someone in a non-arts position, who turned out to be a bad fit, by pointing out that person's job specific qualifications as reasons for hiring them in the first place,
I only wish the arts did, as more rule than exception, help people in non-music related work find employment. I'm reminded of my first post college job, where a mandatory program at the company I worked at, for its senior executives (which suffice it to say I was not then) required them to effectively go to "culture school," on the company's nickel and time, where they were taught the basics of most art forms so they could appear more rounded in social situations, representing the company's financial products and services.
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