 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2014-03-29 08:56
Those of you that prefer a setup with a lot of resistance, what do you find the advantages to be. Or is it just the feeling that you like.
AAAClarinet
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-29 18:00
I suspect there's some people who say they like it...which may (or not) be code speak for the fact that they're more use to it than like it.
Perhaps the instrument providing some degree of governorship over the player's air pressure is considered desireable by some. Maybe when one is tired at the end of a passage, where ability to control the air column is somewhat compromised, it's good to know the clarinet won't let your lack of stamina and breath control get in the way of blurting out a tone.
Then again, maybe people who play such setups get more exhausted than another player precisely because their resistant clarinet (and whatever is causing the resistance, from mouthpiece to reed to clarinet itself) is making them more tired. The exhaustion can transfer to all aspects of the clarinet playing experience, for tense fingers to looser embouchure.
While no means am I in the camp that believes near no resistance is the way to go (such where terms like "blown out clarinet" may have arisen) I do believe that too many players are setting themselves up for having to do too much work to make music, as if reed strength were a surrogate for clarinet proficiency, creating bite marks inside their mouth where the lower teeth touch their gums, etc. Of course a reed's strength means nothing without also understand whose brand of reeds and mouthpiece are used.
Playing the clarinet should not require lots of physical effort. Better, I think, that you control the clarinet than it controls you.
Whatever the resistance level, a better setup ( and/or clarinet) will, I believe, not have as much differential in resistance between notes like throat A, and the notes immediately above.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-03-29 19:03
I vote for a setup that allows me to use VD Blue Box #3 or equivalent. I prefer the sound and response of most "medium" reeds ...
I guess this means a little more resistance in the MP and horn than some might prefer ... but I like the "hold" or resistance mostly in the MP ...
At one time, I used very free blowing Yamaha YCL62/65 and a free blowing MP with #5+ reeds ... ! Out of supreme ignorance, I also bit a lot, too ... but you still had to work hard, even with biting ... my lungs and lips can't take it anymore.
Tom
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-03-29 15:39
I bought the myth that high resistance was required for top quality play, for a few years. And I wanted to play up high, and also thought that required hard reeds. I even read (I don't think here) advanced players ridiculing the tone etc of those playing #2 reeds. And I constantly tried to work my way up the resistance scale. But every time I happened upon a freeer blowing setup, it was like magic, wow this is nice!
Now with my recently acquired ATG system I can adjust my reeds as compliant as I want, while retaining the balance required for playing reliably in all registers. And I find myself shifting them further and further that way. I'm starting with 2.5 Vandoren blue, and need to try 2.0 to maybe avoid so much sanding. There is a limit- too soft and things do go south. But I suspect most of you, if you were to pick up my ideally configured (for me) horn and try to blow, would find it impossibly unresistant. I could be wrong about that.
I was very happy when someone shared here on BBoard that my idol Pete Fountain played 2-2.5 reeds (although I think on a more resistant mouthpiece), so perhaps I'm not completely crazy. Are there any of you high end pro classical folks also leaning super compliant, who are willing to admit it in public? (Since it seems for some a mark of distinction to play #5 reeds- abs of steel LOL- the opposite could be a mark of shame.)
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-03-29 20:16
Clarinet players have no idea what resistance is till they have a go at playing the Oboe, especially with a reed that is 'usable' but still needing a bit more work to 'hone' (free) it up a bit. The art of Oboe playing is to fashion a reed in such a way as to remove as much resistance as possible without compromising the tonal quality of the Oboe. Those who continue to play on an Oboe with too much resistance can expect a shortened lifespan.
BJV
"The Clarinet is not a Horn"
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-29 22:12
TomS: Good play, not to mention financial sense would suggest that we buy the appropriate size reeds to fit our mouthpiece and clarinet, not vice versa, as they are of course, the cheapest costing adjustment to make.
(Then again, we all find our own ways of allowing the clarinet to destoy us, as paraphrased from Kal Opperman, so do what works for you TomS.)
This isn't to say that striving towards a setup that requires you to use Blue Box #3 is a bad thing, as many, especially Vandoren mouthpieces suggest this strength being within the range of acceptabilty.
Reed strength
This concept reminds me of two guys in the gym asking each other "how much 'ya bench?" as if greater strength in reeds draws parallels to fitness, experience, etc.
It's just a number that varies somewhat even within brand and strength, let alone strength, and let alone manufacturer. It means nothing without talking also about the mouthpiece your using, and attributes of that mouthpiece like tip opening, facing, and width of the rails, in addition of course to how your clarinet plays with respect to resistance.
I don't know what mouthpiece Mr. Fountain plays on but I will say this. The mouthpieces Vandoren considers more suitable to jazz play, like their 5JB and 7JB have unusually large tip openings (147, and 170mm respectively) where just such strength that it's reported that Mr. Fountain plays on, are considered medium, and actually too strong (believe it or not), respectfully, for such mouthpieces.
http://www.wmaker.net/vandorenenglish/file/142491/
So go figure. Examined alone, reed strength is a meaningless digit unless of course your biting into your lower gums (upper too if you're a double lip player). Then, there's something about your setup that has to change: your biting too hard.
Oboe
Oboe is the simpliest instrument to play of all. I don't know why they don't start youngsters on oboe, rather than recorder in elementary school. Someone visually impaired could make reeds: they're hard to screw up. And those reeds last near forever and rarely require change or water. It's only a testament to how easy the reeds are to make that manfacturers don't sell them. Would you sell the peanut butter already on the bread? Of course not. The end consumer is fine to merge the two all by themselves. Just the other day 2 uncut reed stock salesmen were discussing what to do with their bad cane. "Give it to the oboe players," remarked one. "How could you possibly screw up an oboe reed!!"
I mean really, what are oboe players anyway but washed up clarinetists who couldn't hack it with the other "single reeders"?
(This stuff on oboes is of course anything but true. It's only meant to tease oboists and allow clarinetists to claim the throne of suffering that rightly belongs to double reed players.)
Ok, so oboe is impossible.......but bassoon's a cake walk.......... ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
Post Edited (2014-03-29 18:15)
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2014-03-29 18:34
That was good Russ. I have played oboe for about 15 years, you are correct...very easy ☺
AAAClarinet
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2014-03-29 19:37
The key for a reliable playing platform is to balance the resistance of the different elements of the setup. For eg. my preferred setup is a free blowing clarinet with a mouthpiece with solid resistance and medium reeds.
I tried other player's setups and the outcome from the viewpoint of resistance, they were surprisingly close to each other.
Mark
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-03-30 01:46
After reading that drivel by 'ThatPerfectReed' and commented upon by AAAClarinet it's obvious that some Clarinetists live in Dream Cuckoo Land.
I'll state again "Clarinet players have no idea what resistance is till they have a go at playing the Oboe, especially with a reed that is 'usable' but still needing a bit more work to 'hone' (free) it up a bit. The art of Oboe playing is to fashion a reed in such a way as to remove as much resistance as possible without compromising the tonal quality of the Oboe. Those who continue to play on an Oboe with too much resistance can expect a shortened lifespan".
I play both Oboe & Clarinet regularly, the Oboe mostly in our local Theatre Group.
I'm actually the first skilled Oboists they have been able to get and still the only one. We need another Oboist for second chair but all they can find in wind instrument players are Trumpeters/Saxophonists/Flutists & Clarinetists.
Such wind instrument players are a 'dime a dozen'. They are beautiful sounding instruments in their own right of course when skillfully played.
Oboe players are 'thin on the ground' because this instrument is far more difficult to learn to play proficiently than the more common wind instruments.
I myself love the sound of all instruments , especially the wind quartet of Flute/Oboe/Clarinet & Bassoon and regard these as equal importance in ensembles such as symphony orchestras ect.
So please , we can do without the snide and vindictive comments about the Oboe that is one of the most beautiful sounding wind instruments of all when the skill is acquired to play it proficiently.
Yes ThatPerfectReed. I know that you negated the first negative comment about the Oboe with the last two comments. Perhaps I'm being too sensitive to derogatory remarks about one of my favourite instruments. But I'm very passionate when it comes to things concerning the Oboe. And other wind instruments for that matter.
BJV
"The Clarinet is not a horn"
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2014-03-29 22:01)
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2014-03-30 02:12
You play the clarinet set up that enables you - the individual - to produce the best possible results, whether resistance is high, medium or low is irrelevant to any one else.
The question could equally be switched about to feature "low resistance" if your personal preference (prejudice?) was for high resistance.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-03-29 22:45
Whenever a conversation became difficult, my grandma used to say, "Let's talk about ice cream!".
So, what common flavor of ice cream make a cone with the highest resistance?
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-30 03:45
My comments were 100% jokes and marked as such in case it wasn't abundantly clear from context. You're free to find them not funny, but be offended by them--I think most would conclude that's too far a stretch.
I could write paragraphs related to this but it would not be about clarinets (the purpose of this board). Kindly write me personally sir if you wish to politely discuss this more.
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