 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-28 03:40
What is the difference?
I want to say that volume is like loudness, and that they are both perceptions as well as objective measures that can be taken by sound meters that measure air pressure (e.g. decibel readings.)
Meanwhile, projection is how far the sound carries: which one would have to assume is highly (solely?) correlated with volume.
Is this about right? Or does a lot more go into projection that just what the ears hear as loud versus soft?
To point, I wrote early about 2 mouthpieces, one of which can clearly produce a louder sound than the other as measured on a sound meter, (from the same distance) and yet the quieter one's sound is more concentrated. What does acoustics tell us about what other things go into the ability for that sound to travel (i.e. project) than pure volume (e.g. harmonics, humidity, air pressure, etc.)?
It's no good if one mouthpiece sounds better if significantly less people can hear it. Then again, it wasn't as if the quiter mouthpiece was quiet, or the difference in volume between the two mouthpieces was substantial.
To rephrase: Is it possible that the slightly quieter mouthpiece might be better or equally heard from the same distance as the louder one, and if so why?
Thanks.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2014-03-28 02:53
Perhaps projection is more to do with the intention of the performer. Rather than just suggest playing louder an alternate route is to imagine you are throwing the sound to the back of the hall. It might be that when you try to project the sound further it produces a freer and more beautiful sound than if you just approach it in a local way. ie playing to the music stand. The latter approach might involve more tension in the body and in the tone. So that's my take. Both tones make it to the back of the hall but they have different tonal qualities.....one being more forced and involving work while the other is more natural and exhibiting ease of production
I realize that some people will say certain performers sound loud up close but don't project to the back of the hall. I haven't experienced this.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: TJTG
Date: 2014-03-28 07:24
Short answer: it is the quality of the note's sound.
Long rambling answer:
I used to really get annoyed with this concept. It took me a very long time to wrap my head around it in addition to an long longer conversation with my teacher.
A 5th grader can play loud. A senior in high school can play loud. Professionals can play loud. The difference is the quality of sound. Many players equate more air to louder, and that's not quite correct. To project, air has to be focused. Beginner clarinetists can really blare, but it sounds like a fog horn. More advanced players have good embouchure and maybe even decent air support, and their sound is better. As we advance more everything we do improves. Though the one thing that really sets pro's apart from amateurs is the air.
A professional really knows how to deliver condensed and focused air. Rather than a wall of air hitting the reed, it is delivered precisely and correctly to the reed with fantastically consistent breath support. This gives the note a core through all dynamics.
Sitting next to my teacher in a lesson for some orchestral excerpt, I asked if the dynamic he was playing next to me was the actual "piano" dynamic he used in the concert hall. He said yes. I was baffled. I felt like when I play at his dynamic it always falls flat in concert hall. The difference is our tone quality and the "core" of our sound. When he plays he has a huge amount of fundamental in his sound, it's strong and always present, even at a "pp" dynamic. I now try to make the core of my sound more concentrated and full of the "fundamental" note(the note you're actually fingering) with less of the fuzzy overtones.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-03-28 07:57
Here is my half-baked idea.
A setup with more fundamental pitch, especially if seated, reflects off the floor and other nearby boundary. The reflections adds power, size and spaciousness in the near field, but may not help getting the sound into the distant audience.
With a brighter sound or more overtones, the sound doesn't benefit as much from reflections in the near field but travel more line of sight into the hall. (For the same amplitude, the overtones have more energy than the fundamental pitch.) High frequencies (overtones) are absorbed (attenuated) more, the longer they travel. A bright sound at the performer, might have the overtones attenuated enough by the time it reaches the back of the hall, that the timbre is very balanced and well heard.
If your sound starts out too dark, with few overtones, you can see that it gets darker and too dark and as it goes farther, not good ... and the harmonics or overtones balanced properly with the fundamental is what gives the ear clues to hear the sound beautifully and discern the notes at the back of the hall.
Duhhh, dat sounds logical?
Tom
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2014-03-28 14:42
A good sound concept and a good setup is necessary to be heard well. When the sound have a full spectrum with both low and high overtones, the sound will be heard and will be percepted as beautiful in every corner of a large hall. I think the correlation with volume is weak, because when the these conditions are fulfilled then a pianissimo can project too.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-03-28 17:07
I've always been in the camp that says the quality of the sound makes it project or not, and focus is the most important part of that quality. Projection is certainly not the basis of projection - a player's sound should be audible even at pianissimo
But lately, I've begun to think of this a little differently. I think there are two different issues involved. The obvious one is whether or not a player performing on an otherwise empty stage in a hall of some size can be heard everywhere in the hall. The other issue, which I think gets conflated with the first but is separate, is whether or not in an ensemble texture the individual player's part can be heard through/over the texture when it needs to be.
I've heard many highly skilled and recognized orchestra clarinetists whom I can hear even at pianissimo when they aren't competing with a background texture, but whose playing completely disappears through large swatches, for example, of the swirling sextuplet solo passage at letter I in the last movement of Scheherazade or the short staccato passages in the Russian Dance of Petrushka.
Clearly, projection doesn't depend solely on volume if a pianissimo note can carry to the last row of the theater. But more important to me is that the sound, at the player's discretion, keep its clarity and definition within a texture so it can still be heard as an independent voice that doesn't get soaked up and folded into the background sound when blend is not appropriate.
Karl
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-28 18:40
Thanks for all the thoughts on the matter. I'm beginning to see projection like a fine meal at a 5 star restuarant, while volume as the local all you can eat buffet.
To point: studies on weight loss and diet have shown people to desire larger quantities of food in diners and buffets where the food is adequate in order to feel satiated, and less when it's high quality entrees.
I'm going to see if the local High School teacher, whose been kind enough to listen, might let us sneak for a moment into the school's large performance hall while he roams the back of the room and listens.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2014-03-28 21:20
Pianissimo won't project to the back of the hall if it's covered up in the texture. Every performer has to guage what it takes to achieve the balance that is required. Unfortunately we have to make decisions based on where we are sitting.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Bill G
Date: 2014-03-28 23:05
In my view the most commonly identified characteristics of sound are pitch, volume and tone (the third of which is determined by the presence and prominence of particular overtones); but to me the perfomer in a musical setting adds an additional element more difficult to characterize, which we call projection. I believe this characteristic is provided by an artistic combination of focus and definition supplying aural penetration in some mysterious way.
To paraphrase the statement of a Supreme Court justice in attempting to define pornography: I don't know how to define it but I know it when I hear it.
Bill G.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2014-03-30 15:49
Projection is nothing more than being aware of where you want your sound to travel to. It is like" follow through" in golf and other sports. Just like golf, it is easier to project with certain tone qualities.... a driver /putter or how good a hitter you are. It is more a mental technique than a physical technique.
Freelance woodwind performer
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