 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: wanabe
Date: 2014-03-16 06:47
Does the term ''key'', with respect to the mechanical operations of a clarinet, refer to the metal cap that seals and unseals a tone hole or to the metal tab or lever that operates said cap? I am assuming that a ''ring'' is one of the ''caps'' that is open rather like those on an open hole flute. Is that correct? So, if a clarinet is said to have 17 keys, am I looking for 17 levers and buttons or 17 metal caps?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-03-16 07:12
The levers and buttons. The metal caps with pads in them are most often called pad cups.
Sometimes I guess it looks a little confusing when we refer to "closing a key" and really mean "depressing a key to make its associated pad close."
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-03-16 14:00
Your are right about the rings being the "open thingies." 17 keys are the number of things you put your finger on to operate the clarinet (including the octave key in back).
I never actually thought of the number of cups before. There are also 17 pad cups, but not directly related one to one with the same keys from above.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2014-03-16 20:01
>Sometimes I guess it looks a little confusing when we refer to "closing a key" and really mean "depressing a key to make its associated pad close."
>
Indeed. I'm careless with this terminology even though I used to teach English! When in doubt about what one of us means in any particular context, please be comfortable about asking. We're in no position to criticize you for not being able to read our minds!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-03-16 20:28
I still can't for the life of me work out how a full Oehler system clarinet has 27 keys (and 5 rings with a Griffplatte for RH2) and I've counted and counted them several times over and given up.
Anyone any the wiser to how they reached that figure?
Someone asked me how many keys an oboe has - how long is a piece of string?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2014-03-16 20:41
Maybe that’s only a problem of terminologiy: As you can see on the picture the Oehler clarinet with low E correction has 24 keys, “Griffplatte” included, but, if I’ve counted correctly, 27 tone holes with cups or rings (the Griffplatte, as you know, doesn’t have a tone hole beneath it). So the makers, Dietz for example, offer their Oehler instruments with „24 Klappen, 5 Brillenringe, ein Griffdeckel, vier Triller am Oberstück..., Doppel C - Klappe, ... Gis -, F - u. Es – Heber“.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-03-16 21:10
Oh, so they count both touchpieces AND finger holes as well!
I was only counting the touchpieces which gave 17 keys on an Oehler without the low E/F correction key and 18 keys with it. But if you count all the individual key pieces and linkages, then that's far more than 27 - probably somewhere near the forty mark.
An Oehler system without the low E/F correction has 24 keys (eg. a Yamaha YCL-657-24), but on an Oehler system with the low E/F fitted you have the right hand thumb key, the low F correction pad cup on the lower joint and the bell key which is an additional three keys, so 27 keys in total.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: wanabe
Date: 2014-03-17 01:24
Oehler schmoehler, I'm talking about a Boehm system, Bb, soprano clarinet. When I count them, I count 24 ''touchy things''. That's 6 rings around 6 holes, 17 levers of various sizes and shapes that either open or close another 17 holes one or more at time, and 1 open hole that you stick your left pinky finger in when you want to stop it up. Now which ones are ''keys'' and what do you call the other ''thingies'' :-)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-03-17 01:51
Boehm systems don't count the rings as part of the key numbers - they're usually specified as being 17 keys and 6 rings on a standard Boehm up to 20 keys and 7 rings on a full Boehm.
So on a standard 17/6 Boehm, you'll have the following 17 keys:
1 - Speaker key
2 - Throat A key
3 - Throat G# key
4 - Upper trill key (throat A-B/Bb-C trills)
5 - Lower trill key (throat A-Bb trill)
6 - Side F# key
7 - Side Eb/Bb key
8 - Cross Eb/Bb key
9 - C#/G# key
10 - Cross B/F# key
11 - LH F/C key
12 - LH E/B key
13 - LH F#/C# key
14 - RH Ab/Eb key
15 - RH F/C key
16 - RH F#/C# key
17 - RH E/B key
... and 6 rings:
1 - LH thumb ring
2 - LH finger 1 ring (G vent)
3 - LH finger 2 ring (E/B vent)
4, 5 and 6 - RH fingers 1, 2 and 3 rings (C/G vent)
Full Boehms have the additional three keys - the extra C#/G# touch ('sliver' key for RH2), the RH low Eb key and the LH Ab/Eb lever, plus the extra 7th ring for LH finger 3 for the forked Eb/Bb mechanism.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2014-03-17 05:52)
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-03-19 23:38
This thread reminded me of a passage from Huckleberry Finn. (Please forgive me for quoting from a politically incorrect source. My generation had this book branded on our brains, and I still think we were better for it.)
Aunt Sally is trying to count spoons in a basket. "But she counted and counted, till she got that addled she’d start to countin the basket for a spoon, sometimes; and so, three times they come out right, and three times they come out wrong. Then she grabbed up the basket and slammed it across the house and knocked the cat galley-west..."
So, how many keys on an ordinary Bb clarinet? That depends on what the meaning of the word "key" is.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: BobD
Date: 2014-03-19 23:51
Octave key.......!! It's amazing how many times it's called that......On saxes it is that but on a clarinet it's register key. I'm sure it was just a slip of the finger. And, yes fskelley it can get complicated. And then there's those people with short fuses who ask for help and then flip off someone who is trying to help them.
Bob Draznik
Post Edited (2014-03-20 00:00)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-03-19 23:24
If you take all the keys off a standard 17 key 6 ring Boehm system clarinet, you'll have a total set of 21 keys laid out right there in front of you.
That's the 17 keys which all have touchpieces on them, plus the four ring keys - the three RH ring keys are all soldered to the same key rod so they count as a single key. Any part of the mechanism mounted on a pivot of any kind that is actuated by any finger or thumb or by remote (by means of a linkage) which may or may not have a pad cup is called a key.
The most basic key is a pad cup, a key arm, a key barrel (pivot) and a touchpiece plus some means of springing it either open or closed. A speaker key on the clarinet is the most basic kind of closed standing lever key which has all those aspects.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2014-03-19 23:32
From my repair school days ( official definition but not always commonly used):
If you strip the moving pieces of the common soprano clarinet (think student model) you will have 21 pieces. Those that have pad cups are called keys, including the 3-ring key, the A/D ring key and F# ring key. Those that have no pad cups are called levers. It is not uncommon to call them all keys. Other instruments might have metal pieces with other names (rocker for example).
Steve Ocone
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2014-03-20 16:52
I agree with Steven re keys and levers. Levers link to and operate keys.
I think that is pretty standard differentiation for technicians' communication.
Both keys and levers may have "touch pieces", or "spatulas", meaning the part of the key or lever that is not the key cup and not a ring, that you put your finger on.
But in common usage, "key" is also sometimes used more loosely to mean both keys and levers.
Post Edited (2014-03-20 12:53)
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