 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Sha
Date: 2014-03-10 11:04
Hello, I am looking at going out shopping for a new clarinet and I am curious of hearing your feedbalcks.
I am a recording artist and record New Age/World music. I just finished a CD (for those interested is here: http://www.malimba.com/lovers-night.html) which features a lot of clarinet. I recorded with my Buffet R13 Bb (1978?) using a Vandoren B46 mouthpiece. The major problem has been correcting the sound once recorded...I had to EQ out a LOT of mids and low mids frequency that were over-saturating the recording...a lot of work. First I thought it could have been the microphone's fault - the digital MIC by Appogee - but then I tried recording with my other clarinet, a 1010 B&H Symphony in A, and I had hardly any EQ to adjust. So, I am thinking is this type of R13, which has very rich tones and it's great for playing live - very warm and expressive - but not good for recording. It also seems to have a quite non-even volume through out even the first octave which makes it again difficult when recording. Again I didn't find the 1010 to have this problem as it seems to have a very even volume throughout. I also find the 1010 to be easier and smoother on the keys...maybe it's just a more expensive clarinet? (i bought them both second hand)
Anyway I am on the market for a new Bb for recording and wondering if you guys have any suggestions. I live in Italy (Tuscany) right now and have around $3,000 has a budget.
Thanks a lot.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2014-03-10 20:37
I really enjoyed listening to your creativity and style. I at one time owned a Buffet Radio Model alto clarinet that was from Buffets golden era manufactured in 1959 serial number 203XX that had the perfect tone for your music. The lower register was powerful, round and trance like and there were no nasal type tones in any of the registers that are commonly found in alto clarinets. As you can imagine I have deep regrets that I sold it. I will be looking forward to future creations from you.
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Author: Sha
Date: 2014-03-10 22:14
Thanks, I am happy you enjoyed the music!
Obviously the clarinet you described would be very difficult to come across now.
What brand/type of a NEW clarinet would you say it gets closer to the quality of the Buffet you described?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2014-03-10 23:58
It's not the clarinet. It's the mouthpiece. You need a white or brown Brilhardt, which has next to no middle or high frequencies. A Runyon could probably be played the same.
Use super-soft reeds and an embouchure like an aardvark.
Ken Shaw
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2014-03-10 20:40
I would suggest that you pair up your 1010 A with a Bb. There are many still being used here in the UK. I can put you in touch with a player that has a big collection. Do make sure you use a proper bored out mouthpiece for the 1010 bore or else you'll find the intonation to be off.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2014-03-11 06:51
An old Conn, wide bore.
An old Penzel Mueller mouthpiece, medium facing.
(Seen one on that you know what web sales emporium that can not be mentioned)
Just the right item for 'all that jazz'
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-03-11 09:01
I am a happy camper recording using a barrel mic. I suggest you try it before you trash the idea. You can buy something already made, or do what I did and convert a Shure SE110 headphone- cheaper and might sound better.
I have compared to sound recorded in the room and I can't find fault.
Some details in this old thread, I can supply more on request.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=2&i=1838&t=998
Everything clarinet on http://www.youtube.com/fskelley was recorded this way. (Newer entries sound better than older because my playing has improved, LOL.) One of the nicest aspects of this approach is the isolation of the barrel mic. Room/house noise is no factor at all.
I also use the same mics in my live performances of clarinet solos with backing tracks at church. I simply plug into the sound board like any other instrument or microphone, and the sound guys are good to go. They have been super happy from the first time I offered them this option. Sounds great, and no feedback even if they put plenty of "me" through the monitors.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2014-03-11 20:11)
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2014-03-11 06:08
I actually have a Conn 444N on my work bench currently that might be perfect. I will be finishing it this coming week. Not sure of the tuning until its completed but has great possibilities.
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Author: Sha
Date: 2014-03-11 14:26
Thanks Ken for the suggestion.
I could find the Brilhardt mouthpiece for clarinet white or cream only as a vintage. Do they make them also new? If so do you know where?
I looked up the Runyon and on their web site they have a model 22 or 88. There is no description about qualities of sound at all. Any idea which is what?
They have a comparison chart going from mouthpieces for Big bands to Symphonic (with those two models in between). The sound you are referring to would it belong more to one rather than the other?
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Author: Sha
Date: 2014-03-11 10:35
Thanks Peter (Cigleris),
it is a possibility too...does the Bb also have a wide bore?
Yes I am aware of the fact that you need a proper mouthpiece for a large bore clarinet.
I was going to see Pomarico's show-room next month...they make crystal's motuhpieces...do you think that could be of any help in regard to my issue?
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Author: Sha
Date: 2014-03-11 11:34
Thanks Allan for the tip.
Would you be so kind to send me that link at shastro@me.com?
Is that for the clarinet, for the mpiece or both?
What would you say are the characteristic sound of an old Conn and of that particular mouthpiece?
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Author: Sha
Date: 2014-03-11 15:49
Hi Stan, great to hear about your mic and your sound sounds very good on the videos but...you lost me here....you are using hearphone to mic the clarinet?
And you put them inside the barrel??
I'd be very happy to receive more details if you wish: shastro@me.com
I also don't mind spending some $$ on a ready made mic barrel if you have any to suggest.
Thanks!
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-03-11 19:43
Sha wrote:
> Hi Stan, great to hear about your mic and your sound sounds
> very good on the videos but...you lost me here....you are using
> headphone to mic the clarinet?
> And you put them inside the barrel??
The headphone (small earpiece) is a transducer that can be run in reverse as a mic. That would be true of many speakers of all sizes, but I am grateful that somebody did the experimentation years ago and reported that the SE110 makes a high quality mic. I did try another earphone and did not like the result, so the SE110 is special in this regard. (There must be others, but maybe it's a needle in haystack situation.)
Anyway, you drill a small hole in the barrel and mount the earpiece into the hole from the outside and seal it up. Then the 2-conductor wire from the earpiece serves as your mic line with no modification (other than connecting to a 1/4" phone plug). That then goes into your standard unbalanced input. Apparently the super high volume level inside the clarinet barrel matches nicely with the relatively insensitive earpiece "mic" to send a somewhat normal output level to your mixer/amp.
At the beginning I was concerned about sound quality, and how articulation would come across. But it sounded great from day 1, so I quit worrying and just kept playing.
Of course there are fantastic ways to mic clarinet, involving many kinds of $$$$ mics and fussy positioning and so on. And I am sure that it is possible to blow away the barrel mic results, but not without a whole lot more $ and effort! And I still think if you put the recordings side by side it would be tough to hear a preference. I like thinking about the music, not equipment.
I've got some photos somewhere, I'll post when I can locate them.
One more thing- you do have to get used to the wire hanging from your barrel. No worse than guitar cables and such. You could go wireless if it really bothered you.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2014-03-11 19:51)
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-03-11 20:03
Attachment: DSC06145s.JPG (58k)
Shure SE110 (1/2) on Ridenour Ivorlon barrel, mounted with Marine Goop (secure but removable).
Every clarinet I've resold on eBay ended up with a hole in the barrel resealed with Marine Goop. I have never been able to detect an effect on playing either from the sealed up mic in place, or the sealed up hole that used to host a mic. But I know others would shriek in horror at the whole idea, and shudder at the prospect of disturbing the pressure/sonic distribution in the barrel. So maybe you experiment with a few of those $10 plastic barrels from China. If you decide to go this route, even most OEM barrels can be had for a fraction of the cost of the good mic you no longer need to buy. Leave your good existing barrel for when you don't need the barrel mic, or when you sell the horn.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2014-03-11 20:29)
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-03-11 20:39
Attachment: DSC04297s.JPG (44k)
Attachment: DSC04298s.JPG (40k)
Resealed barrel from Leblanc Dynamic 2. eBay buyer very happy with condition of instrument.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Sha
Date: 2014-03-11 16:59
Thanks Stan, what do you do with the other earpiece's wire and the stereo mini jack?
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-03-11 22:37
Save the other side for another mic- 1 pair makes 2! The mini jack is throw away. You will need to splice on a longer cable. As I reported in the other thread, connections can be fussy and tough to maintain. I figured out how to use these reliably but that didn't happen on 1st or 2nd try.
I think the mics specifically made for clarinet barrels are around $100-150. They do look more rugged. I have no idea how they sound. You could buy on trial so to speak and return if not useful. For whatever reason these are heavily used in ethnic clarinet, not so much in classical and jazz. I don't think that has anything to do with the actual music style- if so maybe somebody can explain it.
Once the signal is in Sonar I add reverb and stereo delay, and some (not heavy) EQ. I find the signal to be pretty nice already. The live sound guys don't have to do much with it either.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2014-03-12 14:16
Hi Sha,
Yes the Bb 1010 will be the same as the A you have. Great instruments that are often misunderstood.
Peter Cigleris
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