 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: nbclarinet
Date: 2014-02-17 20:01
How does the thickness of the reed blank affect tone characteristics.? Specifically, I am considering moving from V12s 3.5 to blue box in the same strength. My issue with the V12s is that while I do get good response, the tip seems to wear out quickly even though I break in my reeds carefully. Additionally, the v12s seem to have a more spread sound compared to other brands I've tried.
My setup is an r13 with an old vandoren 2v refaced to have chedville specs, and a rovner ligature
Do you think moving to blue box will help me obtain a more warm, more clear sound, which is what I'm ultimately aiming for
Thanks in advance
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-02-17 20:26
nbclarinet wrote:
> My setup is an r13 with an old vandoren 2v refaced to have
> chedville specs, and a rovner ligature
>
> Do you think moving to blue box will help me obtain a more
> warm, more clear sound, which is what I'm ultimately aiming for
>
First, "chedeville specs" is completely meaningless in describing the facing characteristics of a mouthpiece. Chedeville mouthpieces had a range of facings, and companies that used Chedeville blanks put their own facings on them. It may be that the problem you have with short life of the tip (are you sure that's what's giving out?) indicates that you're using reeds that are too light in general. #3-1/2 V12 might be too heavy on a medium opening-medium length facing or too light on a close-tipped-long-curved Vandoren-blanked mouthpiece. If the reeds are the wrong strength, finding the right strength might give the effect you want.
The reason the thicker blanks came into popular use is that they tend to give a richer sound. The thinner blanks tend toward more color (read brighter without the pejorative implication) and perhaps more clarity. But you can play with a focused, clean, clear sound on any of the reeds currently available.
And there is - at least for Vandoren - no absolute measurement for thin and thick blanks. Some of the thick blanks I've measured are actually thinner than some of the thin blanks. And my own experience is that the sound and response of V12s, which I've used fairly consistently, does not really correlate very well with how thick the blank actually is.
The only real way to answer your question in your individual case is to buy a box of blue-box Vandorens and try them.
Karl
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2014-02-17 21:10
Like everything else clarinet wise. It's individual. Everything works differently for everyone. Some players prefer think blanks, especially making their own, some don't like them too thick. You do have to try different cuts to see what works for you. Also, try some other brands, some of the Rico cuts are good. I use their Thick Blanks, which aren't really too thick but I like them. They make about five different cuts.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-02-17 22:40
Don't forget the Rue Lepic.....these are a very good cut for the 5RV Lyre style mouthpieces.
.........Paul Aviles
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2014-02-17 21:49
Here's some more theory. Thicker blank probably translates to a softer cane....all else being equal. The closer you get to the bark the harder the cane is. On the thicker blank the vamp is further away from the bark area than it would be on thinner blank and is therefore softer. I translate this to smoother sound. The thinner blank should be clearer in tone. All generalizations.......
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2014-02-18 13:49
In my experience the thickness of the reed blank has a profound effect regarding sound, but has even more effect on articulation. I think many clarinettist are convinced about the fact that a softer reed tip will make it easier to articulate. I fact, I found the shoulders and the thickness of the heart has much more to do with this. A reed with a thick blank (which is IMO above 3.15mm, but this is just my opinion) would resonate through with more effort. And if the heart is made thinner to compensate this, you loose some sound quality. If you leave the heart untouched and thinning the tip, you can achive something, but you can't remove too much material from there.
Designing a reed cut is full of compromises, just like designing a clarinet (sound or intonation?) or a mouthpiece (sound, playability, resistance, intonation, or articulation?). However, reed making is more simple than making a clarinet or mouthpiece of course. I belive the ideal blank thickness is between 2.9 and 3.1 mm. Above or below this, the material of the reed becomes more important than it should be.
Mark
Post Edited (2014-02-18 11:10)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-02-18 18:55
sonicbang wrote:
> In my experience the thickness of the reed blank has a profound
> effect regarding sound, but has even more effect on
> articulation.
Intuitively, I would have agreed with you in the past. But then I spent a few weeks recently almost obsessively measuring the thickness of the reeds I was using, which were mostly V12 and Rue lepic. As I've already mentioned, the thickness of these "thick blank" reeds ranged from about 2.75 mm up to around 3.5 mm. Confounding the issue is the fact that many of these reeds were different at the beginning of the bark just under the vamp and at the butt end - the whole blank was cut on a taper. This suggests a question of how thick the original blank was at the tip, which is where the soft/hard cane effects should be concentrated, when the reed was cut.
As I've also mentioned earlier, I tried as an experiment to see what the correspondence was between thickness and play-ability. I found no useful correlation at all. Some reeds in the 2.75 - 3 mm range played well and some were miserably stuffy and unresponsive. Same thing was true among reeds in the 3+ mm range. It seemed to depend more on other factors - probably (I would speculate) the quality of the specific piece of cane. Inconsistency of cane quality is certainly one of the steady criticisms of Vandoren reeds in general and more consistent cane is one of the major selling points of other reed manufacturers that compete with Vandoren.
Karl
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2014-02-19 11:03
Karl,
That inconsistency of blank thickness actually comes from the method of flattening the back of the reed. Each piece of cane has a different curve, no matter if the diameter is the same or not. The flatter the curve, the thinner the reed will be and vica versa. The reed blanks lay in the gouging machine with their back upside and the other side (the future vamp) down. So blank thickness depend on how the shape of the reed fits to it's place in the gouging machine. You probably find no correlation between thickness and playability because of other factors such as asymmetry in material, different vamp length. I make my own reeds. I craft and measure them carefully, and although it takes considerable amount of time to double check the important parts, it well worth the effort. I can say I have more quality and consistency control than big companies. And based on my experience (although I only started to make reeds for 6 years ago) that reed blank thickness does correlates with response and articulation.
I'm not trying to convince you, because sound, feel and articulation are relatively subjective, just like the method of our playing.
Mark
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