 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-02-04 18:24
I have a new mouthpiece that came with my lyrique clarinet. It's a good MP in that I can actually play the altissimo range whereas with my other MP, I plain couldn't.
However, after playing with it for a bit, my lower teeth hurt, and also my upper teeth too - a bit. Obviously this is an indication that I've been biting more than I was with my old MP.
Try as I might to be aware of this and be conscious not to bite... I still end up with sore teeth. I am guessing that despite my attempt not to bite, I must have somehow bit anyway to force the sound to come out without squeaking / distortion?
I'm giving my mouth a rest by going to sleep now... but hopefully tomorrow I'll do better.
Any tips?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-02-04 14:01
There are a ton of postings here about embouchure that might help you. The basic gist of most of it is that you need to use your lips drawn around the mouthpiece more and your lower jaw clenched up against the reed much less to solve a "biting" problem.
If any of the pain is the kind you get from vibrations in the mouthpiece against your teeth, you could put a patch on the top of the mouthpiece.
I probably won't be the only one to suggest trying double lip for a few minutes at the beginning of your practice session. Then try to carry the embouchure shape over to the single lip by keeping everything the same but leaving your upper lip out against the teeth instead of tucking it under.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-02-04 15:14
My guess is that the mouthpiece you are now using is a bit more open. You may also consider trying reeds a half or even a whole strength less that what you have now.
I would say that our jaw muscles are for grinding nuts and tearing through thick steaks......not clarinet embouchures! You basically "set" the ovate opening for the mouthpiece and just place the mouthpiece into it.
To set the embouchure your lips are firm all around the mouthpiece; the area above your upper lip is firm; your cheeks (up to about a half inch from the sides of your mouth) are firm; the entire area under your lower lip is firm.
Is there any pressure or variance of pressure exerted by the jaw at all while we play? Well, yes, but nominally and if you are CONSCIOUS of it, than it is TOO MUCH !!!!
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2014-02-05 00:50
I had a pair of Lyrique clarinets a few years ago and they came with a Ridenour mouthpiece. The clarinets were very free-blowing, but the mouthpiece (rather a close-long facing) was really resistant. It was my first experience with a very resistant mouthpiece as I'd played Vandorens (M13Lyre, M30) up to that point.
I didn't realize at the time, that such a mouthpiece required a rather different approach to embouchure/airstream or significant tension/biting can result.
As I've gotten older, I've changed equipment to reduce playing effort. From time to time I go back to that mouthpiece to see what if anything seems different. I think with more experience now I could play on it better, but I now require something that requires less work.
If you want to stay with that mouthpiece, then (in addition to the above suggestions) you might try some of the following things:
1) Try a thick mouthpiece cushion as this will open up your mouth and perhaps lessen the tendency to bite.
2) Try a cushion over your lower teeth as well. I've used cigarette paper for years, but other materials work as well.
3) Reduce your reed strength and compensate with better air support. I recommend playing the softest reed that gives you the desired results. I've found that softening the right side of the reed (looking down on the vamp with the tip away from you) helps to improve response by reducing the reed's effective strength without making it too soft. I use reed rush (ala Bonade) but sandpaper (as with the Ridenour ATG system), a Reed Wizard or knife will all do the trick.
4) Practice long tones/phrases at softer/moderate dynamics being conscious to maintain a strong embouchure that (as Paul suggests) "seals" AROUND the mouthpiece/reed without biting. Concentrate on filling the instrument with air rather than biting. For me, the optimum feeling is that I'm getting 100% vibration of the reed producing maximum tone/volume only because of the airstream, not because I'm straining the embouchure.
5) Experiment with clarinet angle. The French/American style of playing often involves a very "tight" (smiling) embouchure and holding the clarinet close to the body in a nearly vertical position. IMO this can create tension that might also encourage biting. In contrast, the German approach involves a more O-shaped embouchure and an instrument positioned more at a 45-degree angle. Experimentation with these concepts can reveal techniques that might help you.
6) Try a less resistant mouthpiece. It seems that many of today's mouthpieces are more, rather than less resistant. Of the mouthpieces I've played, the Fobes and Smith mouthpieces are very responsive and free-blowing. Currently I'm playing on a Kessler-Backun mouthpiece that is rather middle-of-the-road. If you want to try this approach, I would recommend something like a Fobes Debut as it is an excellent mouthpiece and very inexpensive. If this works, you can consider other alternatives.
Ultimately, the goal is to have our equipment/setup "disappear" so that we are free to focus just on the music.
Good luck!
Bob Barnhart
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-02-05 07:18
I don't know how far along you are, Muppie, but I would suggest staying out of the altissimo register until your embouchure is really well formed, some months along. There's a lot of music to be played in the lower two registers, so you don't really need to add the stress of the dog-whistle notes until you've got solid chops. The fatigue can actually be self-defeating.
B>
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-02-05 04:02
Hu Bruno, I only started playing the clarinet towards the end of December 2013, so maybe about 6 weeks now. I am not really practicing the altissimo range, merely trying it out because in the past with the previous MP, I just couldn't do it.
I only practice in the lower and clarion range.
Thanks for all the suggestions so far.
Tom Ridenour suggests stronger reeds to be used with this mouthpiece. They are suggesting reed strength 3.5 to 4. I am using 3.5 but sandpapered (using the ATG system) on the tip and sides. I am using the one reed I like the most (and I have opened about 10+ reeds of varying strengths, from 1.5, 2, and 3.5). I will try my second favourite reed in strength 2.0 and see how I go.
I feel that the 3.5 reed is easy to blow, not resistant at all, and it produces the best sound, not breathy etc. The only issue is this sore lower teeth with this new MP that I had never encountered while using the buffet MP.
I wish reeds can be much easier to deal with - buy, slap on, and play. I'll try Legere reeds next but I'm not in a hurry. I'll use up my cane reeds first and I still have plenty left.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-02-05 04:29
Actually the T36 facing, if that's what Ridenour sent, is not a very long, close facing. It is a medium tip facing. His long, close facing is called the T40.
It sounds more likely that Bob Bernado has something like the T40, and that does cater more to pros who have well-developed embouchures and tend to use heavier reeds.
That said, I quite agree that Clark Fobes' mouthpieces are easy to work with and can be played with very little pressure (so they are great even for players who always use double lip). Either the Debut (very inexpensive) or the (moderately-priced) NOVA from Fobes should work fine if you have to switch. But I would try to accommodate the RA T-36 that you have first.
Developing the "draw string" embouchure in which the lips muscles press gently but firmly inward, along with a flattened chin, will eventually give you enough of the "lip pad" you need to successfully voice the clarion and altissimo registers.
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-02-05 09:56
seabreeze, I believe I have the T36 mouthpiece if they sent the correct one. I can't see any markings / signs on it. Its logo is slowly disappearing off the mouthpiece (after 3 days of use).
Does one make a flattened chin by pushing more lower lip into the mouth over the teeth, so that the teeth is well over the lips?
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-02-05 12:02
First, my apologies for misnaming Bob Barnhart "Bob Bernado." Second,
you form your lips as if you were going to whistle to get your chin to push down. Simultaneously, your bottom lip will pull or bunch up a little as you tighten the muscles around the lips to whistle. This pulling of the chin down and the bottom lip up automatically exercises the muscles so they will eventually be able to handle the upper registers. Look in the mirror when you pucker your lips to whistle. The chin just goes down by itself. Gently place the mouthpiece between your lips when they are in this whistling position.
There was an article in The Clarinet from the 1995's by a medical doctor explaining the anatomy of this in detail. If I can find the date, I'll let you know. You might want to buy that issue (or copy the article if you can find it in a library). The draw string or whistling position of the lips is very natural; no gymnastic contortions or straining is necessary. Most players do best by pulling only a moderate amount of lip over the bottom teeth. You have to experiment to find the right amount for you.
A good teacher observing you can be of great help in setting these concerns straight for you. Have you found one in your locality to give you private
lessons? Doing this can save you from developing counter-productive bad habits that you will have to unlearn later.
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-02-05 13:24
I have a teacher, and have seen her 3-4 times so far. She's been a great help in getting me quickly up to speed and giving me directions as to what to practice on. She didn't focus too much on embouchure, although we discussed it a bit, along with brief mention about the diaphragm etc. She did listen to me playing of course. I am sure she would have noticed and corrected me if I had done something terribly wrong, e.g. looking down and not looking straight.
I'm going to see the teacher again tomorrow.
I got this new clarinet / mouthpiece after my last meeting with the teacher, so she hasn't seen it / known about this problem yet.
I am currently reading Tom Ridenour's book called The Educator's Guide to the Clarinet. It seems to be very thorough although I am still reading about the breathing and haven't yet gotten to the embouchure part. This book might explain it in great detail too.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-02-06 00:20
The article on the anatomy of the clarinet embouchure was by Heston L. Wilson, MD, in the February/March 1995 issue of The Clarinet.
Clarinetist Venancio Rius speaks of the "elastic band" formed by the orbicular muscles that exert well-distributed circular pressure from all sides of the mouthpiece.
In addition to pursing the lips as for whistling, pronouncing the word "voom" will approximately place the lips in a good embouchure formation.
Two videos that take up the question of distributed lip pressure (versus the bad habit of pinching with jaw pressure) are the following--first by a teacher from the Boston Conservatory who happens to play double-lip, and second by a popular Youtube presenter.
Both videos show well-formed embouchures. Notice, though, that Norsworthy plays with a very centered sound with lots of "ping" and Anderson plays with a more covered, woody sound (you may have to listen to other videos of her to catch this). So similar embouchure techniques can still yield widely different tone qualities, depending on choice of mouthpiece, reed, and ligature, choice of clarinet, barrel and bell, and--above all, the physiology of the player and his/her desired tonal conception.
1) Michael Norsworthy (Youtube Michael Norsworthy embouchure lesson).
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYo6R-BaDP4.
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