 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-01-19 23:03
I've just got my first clarinet at the end of December. I really enjoy playing it, I'm seeing a clarinet teacher and also practice at home using a Rubank book.
Is it advisable against practicing/learning the recorder while I'm still trying to learn the clarinet? I've been playing the recorder for 2 years without proper structure / learning material. Just playing by ear. When I bought some books for the clarinet, I also bought books for the recorder and they seem to be quite good books too. Should I just leave the recorder learning for a later time and focus on just one thing (the clarinet) for now?
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-01-19 23:24
If you're comfortable playing both then I don't see any reason why you shouldn't play them both, although I would suggest not at the same time. I've always thought that once you've got your head around fingering a woodwind of any type, then most other woodwinds are fairly close relatives and it's not hard to make the jump to another one.
Tony F.
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Author: TAS
Date: 2014-01-20 03:52
Ditch the recorder. You need full time practice with appropriate embouchure and breath support on your clarinet. Good choice of the Rubank for your first method book...so many school method books have been watered down over the years.
The recorder is for kids
TAS
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-01-20 10:04
"The recorder is for kids"
LOL that may be so, but I love the recorder for its portability. I can bring one camping / hiking and not having to care about it. It is lightweight too. I carried one while hiking across spain and it has been an extremely fun and enjoyable experience.
I wonder why there is no "Recorder" forum in this woodwind.org site I guess it's not considered a serious enough instrument by the professionals? There are some really awesome recorder players out there though.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-01-20 10:25
"Ditch the recorder. You need full time practice with appropriate embouchure and breath support on your clarinet. Good choice of the Rubank for your first method book...so many school method books have been watered down over the years.
The recorder is for kids"
Only if you play it like a kid. Played properly, it's an extremely expressive instrument requiring a great degree of skill. Stay with the recorder.
See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gyRp3i6HQ8
Tony F.
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-01-20 12:12
There are lots of awesome recorder players out there. They keep me inspired.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxM1rl3nJCU
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2014-01-20 08:50
Quote :- "The recorder is for kids"
Once again , a comment so wrong and biased it's 'breathtaking' !
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Author: john4256
Date: 2014-01-20 09:06
> Ditch the recorder. You need full time practice with
> appropriate embouchure and breath support on your clarinet.
>
> The recorder is for kids
>
Absolute rubbish! You may safely ignore this nonsense.
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Author: Funfly
Date: 2014-01-20 14:11
Try the ukulele as well, now that is really cool
martyn
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-01-20 11:09
I'm guessing you're just being sarcastic? I tried it while I was in Hawaii but I don't enjoy playing string instruments.
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Author: Funfly
Date: 2014-01-20 16:34
Yes, that was my attempt at light hearted humour ;-)
However I do also play the uke - possibly as badly as I play the clarinet.
Martyn Thatcher Mature Student Cheshire U.K.
Clarinet - Yamaha SE Custom
Alto Sax - Yamaha YAS 480
Guitar - Yamaha FG 375-S
Post Edited (2014-01-20 16:35)
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2014-01-20 12:38
I'm an amateur, but a fairly obsessional one, so fwiw ... I got my first recorder as a pre-schooler and my first clarinet at age nine. Except for the period during college when I "quit music forever," I've been playing both instruments, in a bunch of different keys and sizes, ever since. I also started plauying saxophones, as an adult.
The similarities between these wind instruments made doubling easier to learn -- but they feel so different from each other that I've never had much problem with confusing the fingerings or the embouchure. The key for me is to practice one type of wind instrument per day -- put some solid time into it, instead of flitting around. I don't seem to retain the information as well if I hop around, though you may find your brain is more flexible than mine. (I also practice piano every day and I mess around with a few other instruments I got cheap at flea markets, but clarinets, recorders and saxes are the only winds I practice methodically.)
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2014-01-20 14:47
"The recorder is for kids" --
Tell that to Michala Petri, one of the greatest recorder players in the world. I love her recordings; she can do with the simple recorder what the great flautists can do. It's amazing! The recorder is also a wonderful instrument if you like rennaissance music or play in an early music consort. I used to have one until my kids lost a piece of it. Now I want another, but really good ones aren't cheap.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2014-01-20 21:19
There's actually a community recorder ensemble in my town, and I considered it, but I've got a full plate as it is (and it's about to get a LITTLE fuller with this year's goals and focus).
I sensed the humor in the "recorder's for kids", so no need to comment on that.
Overall, it shouldn't hurt you to work on both. practice the same music with both as well so you can better hear the differences in expression and how it sounds. I've gotten to the point where I sense what instrument I'm playing on how it FEELS under my fingers. For example, spread out plateau keys, I play sax fingerings. Open holes with rings, clarinet fingerings. open holes no rings, recorder fingerings.
Gets you trouble every now and then though if you go on autopilot (for example, playing bass clarinet and slipping into sax fingerings!)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-01-20 21:47
One thing playing recorder can do is open up an entire range of pre-classical, pre-clarinet music in its original form that as clarinetists we only get to play, if we're interested, in arrangements that often don't do the music justice.
From that point of view, I'm not sure playing clarinet and recorder is very different in principle from playing both a modern clarinet and period clarinets for 18th and 19th century clarinet music.
Karl
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Author: Maruja
Date: 2014-01-20 17:43
Recorders are very big in the UK - and very fashionable amongst those in the know. I went to the Early Music Exhibition in London in London this year and it was a wonderful experience (Michala Petri was playing). One thing I noticed is how beautifully made some of those recorders are, in comparison to standard clarinets. I was quite jealous.
The runner up of the BBC Young Musician of the Year last year was a recorder player and some of the modern stuff she played was incredible (as well as the baroque material of course).
I have started trying the treble so that I can play duets with a friend who plays recorder seriously and I was a bit horrified a month or two ago to see that I had muddled up a fingering with that of the clarinet - but that seems to have disappeared. I am looking forward to playing them both, but don't think I will bother with the descant for the moment.
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Author: Maruja
Date: 2014-01-20 17:44
Oh, forgot to say that there is a recorder section in the woodwind Forum of the ABRSM website.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-01-20 23:07
Maruja wrote:
> ... I was a bit horrified
> a month or two ago to see that I had muddled up a fingering
> with that of the clarinet - but that seems to have disappeared.
Clarinet-saxophone doublers have to get past this hurdle, too, at the beginning. Eventually you just learn.
Karl
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-01-20 18:49
Playing the recorder has much transfer value to the clarinetist. Recorder books are filled with songs and dances from the Middle Ages, the Renaissance, and the Baroque periods that clarinetists don't usually get to play.
Since the recorder lacks an extensive network of rings and keys, the clarinetist gets a workout in making the notes by direct fingering on the tone holes. The recorder naturally voices in a relaxed way without excessive tension in the throat, lips, or tongue. Transferring some of this relaxation to the clarinet can make your playing less harsh and abrupt. Articulation on the clarinet can become less percussive and more musical. If you want to double and triple tongue, learn these techniques first on the recorder, where they are easier to do.
The recorder takes less of a physical toll on your body. I've never heard of a recorder player having cuts on her lips from playing the instrument, or dental problems either.
Remember, J. C. Denner who invented the clarinet was a famous recorder maker. He would have been shocked that anyone would say recorders are just toys. Try to buy an original Denner recorder today and see the price of that "toy"!
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2014-01-20 19:47
The only problem with learning both is that you have to sacrifice practice time for each horn. Time you spend on clarinet is time you could be spending on recorder, and vice versa. But if you have the time or can make the time, go for it.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2014-01-21 01:01
Attachment: Rössler.jpg (539k)
Attachment: Dolmetsch.jpg (305k)
I played Alto recorder for years, and I loved it: van Eyck “Der Fluyten lust hof”, Telemann, Händel, etc. Michala Petry at that time, as I suppose, was not yet born. Our stars were Frans Brüggen and Hans- Martin Linde (from the latter I would highly recommend his “Kleine Anleitung zum Verzieren alter Musik”).
In my retirement I began with clarinet and I am glad for the experience from recorder playing. As I am playing mostly German/ Oehler instruments the fingering differences are a bit less (you are accustomed to forked fingerings) – but on the other hand switching over to Boehm with my Silver King or my Selmer Alto isn’t so much of a problem- at least at my very modest level. On the other hand, of course “Atemstütze” ( I can’t find the English expression) is different , and with the recorder you don’t have embouchure or reed (!) issues.
Recorders can be- in spite of their simple appearance- attractive and highly sophisticated instruments. I’d like to show you two of them: An Alto by Rössler and a Tenor by Dolmetsch from 1960/70ties
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Author: BobD
Date: 2014-01-21 12:39
Funfly: Some days it just doesn't pay to get up.........
Bob Draznik
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2014-01-22 21:01
Attachment: Fluyten.jpg (201k)
Addendum to van Eyck:. These pieces of course I played on a soprano (c) recorder.
(Jacob van Eyck, author of “Der Fluyten Lust- Hof”, was a blind and poor Dutch nobleman, lived ca. 1590 - 1657, played the chimes at Utrecht cathedral and earned some guilders extra for playing the recorder at a churchchyard. Wrote three books with progressively demanding diminutions on popular songs, hymns (e.g. “Wilhelmus von Nassauen”) etc. (see picture).
Post Edited (2014-01-22 21:04)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-01-23 00:32
Some of the best study books for serious beginning recorder players include the following:
Hugh Orr, Basic Recorder Technique, Vol 1 and 2.
Charles Fisher, The Recorder from Zero, Vol 1 and 2.
You can play through these on the clarinet as well.
More technical is Frances Blaker, The Recorder Player's Companion.
After these, a really advanced method is Walter Van Howe's 3 volume
book.
For younger students, Brian Bonser's Enjoy the Recorder is good.
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2014-01-23 09:47
If you really love the recorder, and especially if you love early music, keep it up. Get recorder lessons if you can.
However, there are some reasons you might consider switching, at least for a couple years. I think that the clarinet is harder all things considered, and what you learn on clarinet will transfer better to the recorder than the other way around. (I do NOT mean mean that the recorder is inferior or easy.)
The clarinet is more difficult to finger, whereas the recorder, saxophone, and flute are all variations on a simpler pattern. The clarinet has the RH/LH pinky keys to learn, the throat keys, and you have to learn to THINK of the notes in the first and second registers as being completely different, even though they are fingered the same. I find the clarinet third register more difficult those of the recorder or flute. If you are playing recorder all the time, it may be harder to make the necessary mental transition.
Anyone who plays the clarinet could pick up the others more easily than vice versa.
The clarinet is a "standard" instrument. You can major in recorder in college now, and early music is more popular than ever, but it's probably better to do a traditional woodwind from a job prospects standpoint.
Remember though that each instrument will require a lot of exclusive attention and mental focus to play at a high level. It's hard, if not impossible, for most people to really do justice to more than one at a time (or even in a life). The practice time alone is consideration. You only have so much energy and time, so if you try to do two, you are essentially cutting your energy for each in half. Spend the overwhelming bulk of real quality time on one, whichever you choose, and play the other more casually if you have time. You can change your emphasis eventually, but you need a long term consistent focus for your efforts, both mentally and physically.
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