 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-01-18 20:30
I have spent a quite a bit of time of late with a clarinet fully repadded with the Valentino beige Masters synthetic pads.
For those of you who are used to cork, these pads are quite similar. They produce an amazing seal across the tone hole, but do NOT develop a deep concave shape the like the standard Valentinos. They are more firm than your typical felt and fish bladder pad so they do produce a bit of a sound (light pop) when the pad comes down onto the tone hole while playing. I must also compare to the Kraus Omni pads on this score. I insisted on having the four big pads on the clarinet done in the same pads (despite some tech advice to the contrary) this go around as well as in the past with the Omnis. If I am recalling correctly, the large Omni pads produced a bit more noise on these large cups. Since the Valentino's are slightly less noisy I give them higher marks, but only by a small degree.
The Master's are all synthetic so they (as their softer Green back brothers) so they are completely impervious to moisture (great for outdoor gigs; will NEVER swell or discolor through use). I have seen a few horns that had been done in the Greenback pads ten years after an overhaul looking for all the world like the overhaul had just been done. I have no reason to believe the results will be any different with these synthetic pads.
The sound of the horn is solid as a rock with these pads and may even lend a bit more aggressiveness to the note-to-note transitions (I always appreciate aggressiveness) which on no way interferes with ones ability to then execute a beautifully fluid lyrical passage.
If there is ANY criticism that can be brought in to bear it would be perhaps that they may be just slightly more prone to a gurgle (at the usual places) in the tone hole because there is NO wicking away of moisture as you might have with pads that absorb a modicum of that condensation.
Very recently there has been buzz on the internet concerning a way to create an almost completely moisture resistant surface by making that surface microscopically "bumpy" in a way that causes water (any moisture) to bead up and roll off. This is NOT a greasy coating or Rustoleum's NEVER WET, but an actual change to a surface's architecture. I did ask the manufacturers of both the above mentioned products what there feelings where with regard to this surface being used on woodwind pads but got quite unsatisfactory feedback. Perhaps this may be an idea still too new to be practical .......... the truly ultimate clarinet pad may still be years in the making.
......................Paul Aviles
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2014-01-19 12:16
Random associated thoughts:
"...the large Omni pads produced a bit more noise on these large cups...."
There is no such thing as "the... Omnis". The buyer selects from a range of "foam" thickness and density. Both of these affect the slap noise when the pad closes.
"...The Master's are all synthetic so they... are completely impervious to moisture (great for outdoor gigs; will NEVER swell or discolor through use)..."
That is by no means a given... As far as I am aware, they are a foamed polymer. It is entirely possible that a foamed polymer can absorb moisture and swell. Even most UN-foamed polymers can absorb moisture and swell, let alone the effects of wicking into the "foaminess", which may or may not be closed cell over the entire pad (including the edges) and may or may not cause some swelling.
It may or may not be the case that these are capable of swelling as they age.
(Ir become hard. or become sticky.) Yes, the stability of certain previous foamed polymer pads is encouraging, but their track record is not perfect... Plasticisers invariably eventually leach from polymers. GOOD QUALITY pads of traditional wool felt and membrane are actually amazingly stable - but I live in a country where we don't try to march woodwind instruments in the rain!
Regarding the water repelancy by microscopic surface geography: A similar but more temporary end can be achieved with a minute rub of Teflon powder. But as you referred to earlier, total beading may actually make burbles worse than if the moisture is spread by a surfactant.
"Be not the first by whom the new is tried, nor yet the last to cast the old aside" - Alexander Pope.
:Perhaps leave that to the more wealthy owners who can afford frequent repads if necessary. 
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2014-01-19 19:11
I have switched from cork to Masters on my overhauls for professionals and they are happy with them. There are a few places where I will still use cork, especially the register key. It's nice that the color matches cork. They are still a little soft for me for the open keys. This week I tried the thin 0.80" Masters pad for the open keys (less foam, less sponginess). For that clarinet I may put omnipads on the bottom four pads.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-01-19 17:34
Some great comments from you Gordon.
The whole synthetic pad scene is a little new in the places where I have forced techs to do my bidding so the variety of available "Omni Pads" was probably not explored fully. There were three Greenline horns re-done in Omni pads for the express purpose of being outside horns. I thought the results were quite amazing and I was ready to declare synthetic pads the way of the future back then.
I am intrigued by the idea of foam absorbing moisture. There are (or were) some black foam pads that were more on the order of "sponge rubber." I would have no problem imagining moisture getting trapped (for a time) within the cell of these pads, but the Omnis and the Masters don't seem to lend themselves to the "sponge" affect so much in my observation of what is going on. It just doesn't seem possible to me that a synthetic fiber would 'expand' at all since it is in essence an oil product.
I would take issue with the traditional wool felt pad remark, and agree with you at the same time!! Bill Brannen makes his own pads for the bottom joint and wraps them in a triple layer of fish bladder that he guaranties for more than ten years! Of course as I stated in the first post there had been several clarinets I had seen with the standard Valentinos after ten years looking for all the world like those pads could easily do another ten years. Whereas my Brannenized horns were looking a bit ragged by the ten year mark.
Most of all I am impressed with the practicality of the Aussie regard for rain. If ONLY the U.S. Military could learn a little something from you guys!
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2014-01-20 16:38
Nylon is an oil product. Some types can absorb up to 8% or more of moisture, resulting in dimensional changes of around 3%. (A significant consideration for nylon bearings.)
Post Edited (2014-01-20 11:39)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2014-01-21 23:46
Something to consider: The pad stock that I need in order to do woodwind repairs efficiently is perhaps $30000 worth. (The alternative would be to order/import as required, which would enormously increase the cost and create a large wait time for the customer.)
With so many new pads coming on the market now, do players expect technicians to create a completely new stock of pads every time a new pad fashion emerges?
If so, the charge for such pads should have the cost of the now obsolete stock built into it.
Already, the price charged by technicians for a pad is ridiculously low, considering the high-value/very-low-turnover stock needed, the costs in time of stock control/ordering/importing, the pads sometimes discarded because they turned out to be unsuitable after being fitted, the ones that deteriorate with age (eg white leather turning yellow or spotty), the complicated storage (and associated organisation time) required for easy access, etc.
So for new-line pads, how about considering a realistic price of say $15 each?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-01-22 07:38
Thank you Gordon for more valuable enlightenment. I never considered the real world business implications behind some of the "issues" that have come up with various clarinet repair shops.
I have of late been considering the problems facing "brick-and-mortar" stores (this is relevant I swear!). A television expose made the point that "smart people" will inspect their future purchases at a local store, but then turn around and buy on-line for less. I am of the mind that "WE" as the buying public must make the conscious effort to support stores albeit at a premium otherwise there will be no more stores in our future.
So I guess what I'm saying is that I would rather have the options as you address them laid out for me in advance by the various tech shops so that I can make what amounts to a moral decision (or rather more a socio-economic decision) rather than just storming off to the next guy because what I am hearing from a foreshortened answer is only "no, we won't do that."
However, the shop I just dealt with didn't even have the beige Masters in inventory, and allowed me to ask for those specifically. In a well laid out case I would not have a problem paying a "premium" for a service that otherwise might undermine the future of the shop's business.
I'm NOT unreasonable...............just hard to get along with :-)
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2014-01-22 08:25
As a woodwind repairman, I have to agree with Gordon- it is financially and space-wise impractical to add inventory every time a new pad type hits the market. My policy is to inventory high quality standard cork and skin pads- if the customer specifies something else, I inform him that I will have to order them and let him know when they arrive. It would be most helpful if pad suppliers would make kits of their latest offerings for the popular sax and clarinet models, so that ordering a set would be easy and affordable. If the pad style becomes popular enough, then it might be financially feasible for me to stock all the likely sizes.
Jerry
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