 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-01-06 07:59
Hi, I'm a clarinet newbie. I got a Buffet E12F just before Christmas 2013 and I've been struggling with it. I've made progress though.
I replaced my ligature with a Vandoren Optimum ligature, and use Rico #2 reeds. I instantly noticed an improvement in the sound clarity / quality. However, I still notice a _lot of_ hissing that seems to come from the upper part (first joint). I tested this by:
- Blowing into just the mouthpiece + barrel - no hissing
- Blowing into just the mouthpiece + barrel + first joint - hissing noticeable. The hissing happens especially when the bottom hole is uncovered.
Is this just a matter of technique or is there something wrong? I listened to some youtube videos of how others sound and some of them can sound sooooo clear without any hissing noise.
Thanks in advance
Post Edited (2014-01-06 13:00)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2014-01-06 13:12
Hissing can happen for many reasons.
It is very possible that the reason is the reed+mouthpiece+player, but it won't happen with just mouthpiece or mouthpiece+barrel. Just like some notes tend to be hissier than others, eventhough it's e.g. the reed that is the problem.
I assume that by "hiss" you mean a type of airy sound along with the sound of the note.
Some notes are hissier than others. Some clarinets are hissier than others. A mouthpiece+reed+player setup is the most likely reason for a hiss, but still some notes and/or instruments can be hissier because of this.
Higher notes (e.g. mouthpiece or mouthpiece+barrel) sometimes tend to be less hissy because to play them the player use slightly more pressure, which helps overcome the hiss from a hard reed.
The room and/or recording can make a huge difference in this too. Some spaces and ways to record really emphasize the sound and some emphasize the hiss.
etc.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2014-01-06 11:23
Have you tried a new reed?
The most common source of hissing is air leaking around your embouchure. When you blow on the mouthpiece, barrel and upper joint, do you have a reed on the mouthpiece? If there's no reed, air will make a whistling sound as you blow past the sharp edges of the mouthpiece rails, which is nothing to worry about. If you have leaks around your embouchure, make an aardvark face to get your lips sealing all the way around.
How does it sound with the clarinet put completely together, reed, ligature, embouchure and all?
Have you tried it with your old ligature? Tighten it up snug on the reed and then back off each screw 1/4 turn.
Look at the bottom of your reed. If there's an impression of the shape of the mouthpiece window, this will cause a leak unless the reed is *exactly* where it was before. Get a piece of black 400 grit sandpaper, put it over a flat surface (preferably plate glass), press hard on the bark but not at all on the vamp and sand the area under the bark until the impression is gone and the surface is shiny.
There's a limit to what we can diagnose without seeing and hearing you. I strongly recommend a lesson or two to get past beginner problems.
Ken Shaw
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Author: BobD
Date: 2014-01-06 15:44
Your reed is too stiff for your mouthpiece. Try a 1 1/2 vanDoren.
Bob Draznik
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Author: pewd
Date: 2014-01-07 00:44
What kind of mouthpiece are you using?
I'd suggest the reed is too soft...
FWIW, I usually start students on a 2.5 Blue Box Vandoren, on a Fobes Debut mouthpiece.
If at all possible, get some lessons with a good private teacher.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-01-07 06:51
I don't think the hiss came from air leak around my embouchure. At least that's not where I think the hissing noise came from.
The mouthpiece is the standard one that came with my E12F. It is plastic and I noticed it doesn't fit perfectly well into the barrel. There's a tiny bit of play to it.
I initially started with a box of 1.5 reed and one 2.5 that came with the clarinet. I've opened 2 reeds from the 1.5 box and tried the 2.5. I've also ordered a box of Rico #2 and Vandoren #3.5 and they've just arrived yesterday.
I found that the new Rico #2 gave me the best sound and I actually didn't notice any hiss with this reed. I'm guessing the reason for the hiss was because what I blew into the mouthpiece didn't convert into reed vibration, but rather, travel on as pure strong wind that comes out fast, hitting the pads below.
This has been an interesting experience so far. Is the choice of the reed strength dependant on the the shape of the mouthpiece, or does it also depend on how strongly we blow into it thereby different strength reeds can still play well on the same mouthpiece?
PS I have taken my first lesson once before Christmas and will take another one in a few days. Meanwhile I've been practicing every day (although the 30 minute limit is annoying because I'd like to play longer).
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-01-07 07:41
Muppie said: "Is the choice of the reed strength dependant on the the shape of the mouthpiece, or does it also depend on how strongly we blow into it thereby different strength reeds can still play well on the same mouthpiece?"
The size of the opening at the tip of the MP and the length of the "lay" (the part that has no contact with the reed) do have an influence on how hard a reed we choose. How hard we blow does not come into it at all, but how developed our embouchure is greatly influences how stiff a reed we choose.
As players develop their embouchure musculature it's common to select stiffer reeds - not necessarily better though. There seems to be some sort of social cache' in playing a stiffer reed, although for the life of me I can't imagine why. Some of the best players play a #2 and ½ for most of their lives.
I've known Buddy DeFranco most of my life and one time he sent me a copy of his favorite MP. It near broke my jaw! Worse yet, he told me he plays #4 reeds! And for many years he used #4s with a 5JB Vandoren MP - the widest opening and longest lay they made.
So, it's all how we develop over the years, what kind of music we play, the venues we play it in. (Noisy, brawling nite clubs lead to #4 reeds and 5JB Vandorens. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) )
Be easy on yourself. Don't get the idea that a stiffer reed is somehow better. What's better is to get the dross out of your sound, listen closely to develop a beautiful sound bottom to top, stop practicing before you are fatigued, take lessons, and enjoy the process.
Good luck!
Bruno.
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Author: TAS
Date: 2014-01-09 04:21
Purchase a decent mouthpiece and step up your reed strength a bit.
Folks like the Vandorec B45. I don't, but I am in a minority.
I love the Theodore Johnson TJ3.
TAS
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2014-01-09 04:46
I would think the B45 would be too open for most. But what do I know, I've spent most of my time blowing into oboe reeds. :-)
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2014-01-09 13:01
> The mouthpiece is the standard one that came with my E12F. It is plastic and I noticed it doesn't fit perfectly well into the barrel. There's a tiny bit of play to it.
>
That tiny bit of play can cause hissing and also may contribute to intonation problems. It sounds as if that mouthpiece needs a slightly thicker cork to fit properly. On the theory of, "Always fix the cheapest thing first" (from my husband, who does all his own work on his 1950 Chevy), I'd get that mouthpiece cork taken care of. Even if you end up preferring a different mouthpiece, it's always good to have a backup, because a good quality hard rubber mouthpiece is fragile if dropped on a hard surface.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2014-01-09 18:02)
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Author: Siq
Date: 2014-01-09 14:15
Kinda hijacking your thread, I would like to know your impressions about the e12f so far. I know you're just a beginner but I believe it's important to listen to all kinds opinions, both from newbies and experts.
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-01-10 07:20
No mouthpiece is too open if you choose a soft enough reed. The B45 is a good all-round MP. On the other hand, I notice that experienced players often advise students with beginners' problems to choose a harder reed, perhaps a 3 or a 3-and-a-1/2. What's that about? I think a harder reed is the last thing they need.
B.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2014-01-10 19:34
>> I notice that experienced players often advise students with beginners' problems to choose a harder reed, perhaps a 3 or a 3-and-a-1/2. What's that about? I think a harder reed is the last thing they need.
>>
I think you think better than people who advise beginners to use hard reeds. That bad advice has been around at least since the 1950s when I started playing -- all tied in with a misconception that more mature people use stiffer reeds.
Many a pro classical player does use a closed mouthpiece with a thick slice of what I assume must be roofing shingle (you can spot that person because his face turns purple, his veins pop out, his eyes bulging out of their sockets look like golf balls and sometimes his head explodes onstage in a burst of fireworks -- or you can enjoy the music a lot more by looking somewhere else), but many a pro jazz player uses an extra-open mouthpiece with a no. 2 reed in order to bend the pitch easily. It all depends on what you want to hear and what works best with a particular mouthpiece.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2014-01-10 22:56
Lelia, do you know where I can see the "burst of fireworks" on YouTube. Thanks
AAAClarinet
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2014-01-11 18:40
>Lelia, do you know where I can see the "burst of fireworks" on YouTube. >
![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif) !
But such a video could make an amusing link for a teacher trying to make the point to a beginning band class. Any clarinet players out there who double on special effects?
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: muppie
Date: 2014-01-15 16:23
Sig, The E12F is my very first clarinet, the first one I have ever touched. It seems well built, except for the mouthpiece being slightly loose as I mentioned. The bell is very tight but can be taken off just fine.
With Rico #2 reed, it sounds very very nice but of course this is very subjective.
I have only played up to the clarion range, not the altissimo yet.
By the way, I am about to start another thread.. but since you might be looking for a clarinet... I am thinking of getting a Ridenour Lyrique clarinet. Initially I wanted to get their 576bc but I was told they have a brand spanking new model (not even announced yet) which is an improved model up from the 576bc. They call it Lyrique Libertas. Their site has some interesting reading http://ridenourclarinetproducts.com/
For the record, I have absolutely nothing to do with ridenour nor buffet... I am not endorsing anything (how can I be when I'm a total newbie).
As for the MP being a bit loose, I might try using plumber's tape (aka pvc tape?) and see whether it makes a difference. Has anyone tried heating the cork over a hot water steam to expand it a bit? I tried this trick for my wooden recorder's cork and it worked really well.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-01-15 12:51
Just have a tech change the cork of the mouthpiece (have the barrel with you too). This IS the a simple, inexpensive fix you need. Plumber's tape will work in a fix (that is, if you really don't have the time, such as an emergency repair just before stepping out on stage), but it compresses the underlying cork.
DON'T put a hard rubber mouthpiece over heat ......EVER !!!!
Unless of course you want a soft rubber mouthpiece.
...............Paul Aviles
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