 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-12-09 01:26
I had seen a recent article posted to Yahoo about the utilizing an uneven micro surface imposed on something (such as clothing) to make it virtually water proof. This uneven micro surface causes water droplets to actually bead up (what water wants to do anyway) on the surface countering the properties of water adhesion and allowing the water to merely roll off.
Here is a quote from Wikipedia on "The Lotus Effect:"
"The hydrophobicity of a surface can be measured by its contact angle. The higher the contact angle the higher the hydrophobicity of a surface. Surfaces with a contact angle < 90° are referred to as hydrophilic and those with an angle >90° as hydrophobic. Some plants show contact angles up to 160° and are called super-hydrophobic meaning that only 2–3% of a drop's surface is in contact. Plants with a double structured surface like the lotus can reach a contact angle of 170° whereas a droplet's actual contact area is only 0.6%. All this leads to a self-cleaning effect."
OK, my point here is that there are already several manufacturers of 100% synthetic pads that are already quite wonderful. What if it were possible to impart this micro architecture to the surface of a synthetic pad such that droplets of condensation would never be able to completely occlude a tonehole? Now wouldn't that be nice?
Perhaps someone out there besides the existing manufacturers would be willing to give it a shot and offer up a superior, dare I say ULTIMATE clarinet pad.
...................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-12-09 03:06
Ok, firstly the RAIN-X discussion addresses a solution at the bore. I propose that if the condensation doesn't "stick" to the pad at the outer portion of the tone hole, what happens in the bore is irrelevant.
In addition, the solution I propose refers to the actual physical structure of the pad, not a chemical coating. So make the pad out of "X," whatever that is, but form the surface structure such that it will make the pad super-hydrophobic. A heretofore impossible proposition with the natural materials previously used, cork, leather, fishskin (bladder) and the like.
..................Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2013-12-09 03:08)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ruben
Date: 2013-12-09 10:54
Germans make a lotus-effect paint that they use in hospitals, presumably because bacteria doesn't stick to it either. My question is: is the condensation actually on the pads? I would say it is rather in the tone holes. We at JL-Clarinettes have experimented with silicon pads that have very good acoustic qualities, as they don't absorb any of the sound waves the way leather or cork does. The problem is that they don't develop imrints/indentations that ensure that the pads fall on the same place every time, which maximises sealing. The pads would have to be moulded onto the tone-holes. This might well be possible to achieve.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-12-09 11:34
It seems to me that what is happening at the tone hole (regarding condensation at say the Eb/Bb sidekey) is that a bead of moisture remains "stuck" to the pad AND the rim of the tone hole when the key is opened. If the bead of moisture immediately rolled out of the tone hole upon being opened (much like it rolls out the bell) than there would be no physical barrier to the air and sound would immediately be produced (no gurgles or complete absence of sound). This scenario should be even better at the "A" key where gravity dictates that the condensation is NOT rolling out, but merely sticking to the pad.
At any rate, if this synthetic pad (made of the same 'stuff' they are now) only changed the surface geometry (NOT the material) then they should form the same crease that creates the seal.
....................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2013-12-09 11:48
I used silicone pads on a vito clarinet once and they worked great. If the spring pressure is fairly strong and the keys are nice and rigid then silicone will form an indentation although they don't bead up water. Anyway getting back to the topic if the water did bead up then wouldn't it just run into the tone hole and collect there? Personally I don't mind taking the extra seconds to dry of my pads with a paper towel, something which I think more people should do.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2013-12-09 14:41
......but what about the saliva?
Bob Draznik
Post Edited (2013-12-09 20:42)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: modernicus
Date: 2013-12-11 22:55
ruben- I believe I saw where somebody had made their own sax pads the way you suggested by moulding silicone to the tone hole.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-12-12 04:06
......but what about the saliva?
Bob Draznik
Most of the liquid is pure water condensate. There may be some biological content but it will be a small proportion of the whole.
Tony F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ruben
Date: 2013-12-12 06:53
Thank you Modernicus! We'll try to follow up on this: moulding the silicon to the tone holes. The drawback is that these pads couldn't be one size fits all: they would only be suited to one model of clarinets. As I said, the advantage of moulding is to get the imprint/the crease. As the silicon bounces back, you will never get it as a natural consequence of pressure from the springs or wear and tear. Without this crease, you don't get maximum sealing. If the moulding works, we will get great sealing, acoustic properties and these pads will last forever!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2013-12-13 21:06
I think I used "Blue Tack" /Silly Putty with Saranwrap over it once.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
