 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2013-12-07 03:03
New socket grafted on? I'm not that familiar with it, but it doesn't look that well done cosmetically- but if itworks OK...
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2013-12-07 03:06
Yes, that's a tenon socket graft (someone please correct me if that's the wrong terminology). That instrument had a broken tenon at some point. It's not very unusual. Why do you ask?
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-12-07 04:59
Looks like a Delrin socket grafted onto a wooden joint. Probably perfectly functional, but not very good cosmetically.
Tony F.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-12-07 12:30
I'd be happy if I could make such a socket repair.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-07 13:12
That's what happens when you fit an imperial socket graft to a metric lower joint.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-12-07 14:32
Chris P wrote:
> That's what happens when you fit an imperial socket graft to a
> metric lower joint.
Fortunately, it's not space gear...
--
Ben
Post Edited (2013-12-07 14:33)
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2013-12-07 14:34
Note that the socket ring has been put on upside down.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-12-07 15:37
I'm certainly no expert on the subject....but the new Delrin graft has circumferential machining marks indicating it was turned down .....maybe to acomodate a ring that wasn't the original one from the wood piece. ?
Bob Draznik
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2013-12-07 16:29
I was guessing that the joint was taken off some plastic clarinet and mated to rest of the clarinet.. how it was done? is the the strait joint or did they cut the socket and capped it over or put it in?
what surprising the repair was done to some no-name french stencil ?Pierre Maure?.. must have been done years ago.
It just doesn't make sense even if you have a lace! it just seems too much work comparing to superglue/pinning/banding! Even if you have big chunks missing and dont wanna cut the pieces of wood and fit in, you can still pin it and close gap with epoxy.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-12-07 18:31
cyclo....if you haven't read about socket grafting doing so might help your understanding......
Bob Draznik
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2013-12-08 00:59
Attachment: DelrinRod.JPG (35k)
>yclo....if you haven't read about socket grafting doing so might help your understanding
Bob, thnx; I found read this: http://www.musictrader.com/wwtenonsocketrepair.pdf
it is hard to say how it looked before, but unless half of the socket was chopped off with axe if it was just a split wouldn't it be better to repair it? I suppose it would be more time consuming then to strip joint lathe and epoxy delrin socket..
>I'm certainly no expert on the subject....but the new Delrin graft has circumferential machining marks indicating it was turned down .....maybe to acomodate a ring that wasn't the original one from the wood piece. ?
no the markings are probably from original rod (pic attached)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-12-09 14:34
Cyclo: Sorry but the marks on the repair socket "plug" are from machining the original rod. Delrin rod is not round enough for use directly and there are size issues involved. There are various reasons for doing a graft rather than "patching up" the job.
Bob Draznik
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2013-12-09 18:28
Chris P wrote:
> Here's an example of a socket graft using a donor joint:
> http://www.clarinet-repairs.com/socketgraft.html
>
Chris, thank you for the link. I am guessing on OP pic it would have been easier to have the original socket cut off, body machined down and a piece of delrin pipe glued on.. but it looks like it was a complete graft which had been done the same way as in link.
With respect to work done in link in your professional opinion was the graft really justified? wouldn't a couple pins or band (not nearly on the same level as your wonderful work) be less obtrusive?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-09 22:14
If the socket was destroyed along with the C tonehole and a replacement joint couldn't be found, then a socket graft would be justified if this was a clarinet worth saving - otherwise it would most likely be an insurance write-off and the owner would get a brand new Yamaha 450 or Buffet E11 or Leblanc Sonata to replace it with the insurance pay-out.
Maybe it was used for someone (an apprentice or trainee) to try out this kind of repair work on first at repair college or with a company before they were let loose on more expensive instruments. But they got their measurements wrong - maybe their vernier calipers moved in between measuring the joint diameter and checking the diameter of the plastic graft they were currently turning.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-12-10 13:46
.......or maybe Delrin rod is not available in all sizes needed for socket repairs. I had contemplated trying such a socket repair....once.
Bob Draznik
Post Edited (2013-12-10 13:48)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-10 13:57
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/download.html/1,3390/joint_repair.jpg
Those are definitely machining marks on the outside of the graft which were done on a lathe. Delrin rod has some marks on it as it comes, but these aren't like the ones you'd see.
A better thing would've been to fit the graft oversize and then turn it down to the finished diameter once the glue has hardened, then it should end up the same outer diameter of the joint (provided the joint is perfectly centred while mounted between the lathe centres).
Just to add - Delrin rod is definitely available in diameters large enough to make oboe bells from and even larger still, so this socket graft appears to have been due to some error in the measurements whilst machining it. I would like to see how they got the ring keys and C vent pad cup to line up with the narrower diameter section as the ring key barrel will now be at a slight angle.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2013-12-10 17:42)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-12-10 21:23
Chris: When you get in the range of what would be needed for the graft there's not enough sizes to choose from. Chances are he would have had to go "way" oversize or the same size as the OD of the joint. In the latter case he had to machine the OD below the wood diameter to clean the rod up. My guess.
Bob Draznik
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