 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2013-12-07 02:37
Just got a new Yamaha 255 out of the case, first time. F key sticks down. How do I get it to unstick? Warrenty is an hour's drive away, and I'd probably have to leave it. Rather find a quick fix here.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-12-07 07:22
Unless you have some experience with self repair, there is the possibility that you would place it in worse shape than it is in already............... what is the key to which you are referring? Lower joint, upper joint? Sticking open? Sticking closed?
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-07 11:28
Don't do anything that could invalidate the warranty if it continues to stick.
There are many possibilities that can cause it to stick - the crow's foot catching on the other RH touches, the pad catching on the side of the tonehole countersink, the spring being too weak, the screw being bent, the key barrel being bent, the key barrel being too tight a fit between the pillars, one of the pillars being out of line, the silencing material being contaminated with oil or glue, the silencing material being damaged, the underside of the touchpiece catching on the Ab/Eb touchpiece, polishing compound in the key barrel, the rod screw being rusty, the needle spring catching on the key barrel, needle spring being too long, ...
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-07 11:38
It's 99% sure to be caused by the crowsfoot being bent so the prong binds on one of the two lower keys for the right ring finger. This is a very simple adjustment, a matter of a few seconds. Although I know Chris objects, I've been fixing this for myself, with finger pressure only, since I was a beginner.
The other 1% is if cork or plastic sliding surface at the bottom of the left hand low F key is damaged or misaligned. If it's binding, apply a tiny dot of cork grease, the size of a pinhead, using with a jeweler's screwdriver or a toothpick.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-07 13:21
I'd only suggest repairing this to anyone who has the knowledge of or can diagnose exactly what the cause is and also the confidence and experience of doing so to put it right without doing any lasting damage which could invalidate the warranty. Not everyone has the aptitude to fix the simplest of problems, so no point in tempting fate.
Otherwise take it back to be fixed under warranty (if they have an in house tech) or to your nearest trusted tech to have them sort it out if you're in any doubt.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2013-12-08 02:58
I'm very unlikely to ruin it because I won't do anything beyond the mildest of attempts. But someone has to tell me what the crowsfoot is. The whole thing feels like it is binding; sticks all the way down, sticks all the way up, feels tight going up and down. I had hoped a drop of oil in the right place would fix, that it was a matter of lack of lubrication. I'm used to brass instruments that just need sufficient oil and stuff comes loose.
More info: the right hand part of it is completely free. It is the left hand part, and if I had to describe it I'd say the long part is binding on something. It doesn't move easily either direction and stops in place if I only move it part way. Is this something I need to take in and "get fixed" in terms of a manufacturing defect?
Post Edited (2013-12-08 03:02)
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Author: pewd
Date: 2013-12-08 03:03
Which F key? 2nd space, or below the staff? (lower joint or upper).
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-08 03:16
If it's the LH F/C lever, then it's most likely binding between the point screws which sound like they've been tightened up too much. So back them both out a tiny amount (both screws turned anticlockwise by a quarter turn) so there's some play between the pillars so that when it's cold, it shouldn't bind up.
If the screws have been backed out and the F/C lever is still tight between the pillars, the key rod will have to be shortened very slightly (less than 0.5mm) to make it work properly - again this should be carried out under warranty and is something you shouldn't attempt unless you have the tools to do this properly. To gain full access to the LH F/C lever, you will have to remove all the keys on the lower joint - the ring keys and B/F# 'sliver' key will also have to be removed to gain better access to the upper RH F#/C# point screw and avoid scratching the RH3 ring with the screwdriver blade.
On plastic instruments, long keys such as the LH F/C lever do need some end play between the key and the pillars as plastic contracts far more with cold temperatures (and expands more when warm) than wood which contracts widthways with low humidity levels.
So check the ring keys and the RH E/B and F#/C# keys have a small amount of end play between the pillars relative to their lengths - longer keys needing more end play than shorter keys.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-08 04:17
The crowsfoot is a prong soldered to the bottom of the low F key for the right little finger. It extends down between the two lower right hand little finger keys (for E and F#) and ends in a small flat plate that is depressed by the two lower keys to close the F hole.
The prong has very little clearance, so it easily gets bent and binds against one of the lower keys. It's the work of a moment to straighten it out, with finger pressure only, so that it doesn't bind.
Ken Shaw
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2013-12-08 17:29
To the person who keeps asking, it is the F/C key that would play concert Eb below middle C on the piano, and the octave and a fifth concert Bb above that. Lower joint.
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-12-09 14:58
My Jean Barre has a sticking problem with that key also, but only after I have been playing for some time, so it seems to be a moisture on the pad situation. However, I have a hard time imagining how moisture can get on a pad that far down and not located near the bottom of the joint circumference. Would a stronger spring solve this?
This is a remarkable playing and sounding clarinet, but I don't use it in band because of this problem.
Gary K
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-09 15:55
What kind of pads has your clarinet got - skin or leather? The moisture comes from your breath and will exit the open toneholes - when you play upper register D or low G, the note along with the humidity from your breath will initially exit from the tonehole covered by the F/C key.
Some pads, usually leather pads that have a thin plastic membrane coating the leather, tend to stick after playing for a while as humidity levels rise. My alto clarinet was repadded with these sticky brown leather pads before I bought it and they start to make sticking noises after a few minutes of playing.
My Yamaha also sax had pads that stuck down after several minutes of playing which was very annoying (but the G# pad wasn't the culprit this time) so I replaced them all with Saxgourmet kangaroo leather pads which don't have plastic coated leather covering them, so no more sticky LH main action pads.
Increasing the spring tension will overcome sticking pads to a degree, but it will make the action stiffer and the pad sticky noise will still be there.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2013-12-09 17:58
@ Chris P
>If it's the LH F/C lever, then it's most likely binding between the point screws
>which sound like they've been tightened up too much. So back them both
> out a tiny amount (both screws turned anticlockwise by a quarter turn) so
>there's some play between the pillars so that when it's cold, it shouldn't
>bind up.
>If the screws have been backed out and the F/C lever is still tight between
>the pillars, the key rod will have to be shortened very slightly (less than
>0.5mm) to make it work properly - again this should be carried out under
>warranty and is something you shouldn't attempt unless you have the tools
>to do this properly.
also could be a burr or bent
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2013-12-12 01:47
Chris P, yes it was those screws. I only had to back one of them off 1/4 turn and now there is no binding. Thanks!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-12 03:59
EaubeauHorn -
Cover the screw head with clear fingernail polish to keep it from moving.
A more durable solution will be to sand/grind a bit off the end of the screw point. This will let you tighten it up snug. (I've seen and been in several instances when an eased-off pivot screw backed all the way out and the key fell off.)
Ken Shaw
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