 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: woodsclarinet
Date: 2013-10-02 23:43
Hello,
I am a high-school clarinet player and I recently got a new mouthpiece. I was using a stock yamaha 4c that came with my clarinet (a Yamaha ycl-52 an, intermediate model). My private teacher told me I needed a new mouthpiece and recommended a vandoren b46 (not a b45 which I know a lot of teacher's recommend). After playing on it for a couple weeks I decided I didn't like the tone. It was muffled and dead sounding compared to the cheap yamaha mouthpiece. So have been using the Yamaha. I remember trying a Vandoren 5RV lyre once and liking that and am thinking about getting one. The problem is my mom got me the mouthpiece for my birthday and I don't think you can return a mouthpiece. I also use mitchell lurie 3.5 reeds if that helps. Any suggestions on the mouthpiece and how to attain a new one would be appreciated.
Dylan
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-10-03 00:16
How long ago did you get the B46 and where? Whether you can return it or not depends on the store's return policy. Also on the condition of the mouthpiece. No one will accept a returned mouthpiece that has any kind of marks on it.
If it's beyond the store's return time limit or the mouthpiece is blemished from use (teeth or ligature marks, for example), you may have to resign yourself to having learned a lesson about mouthpieces - preferences are personal. If you buy another one in the future online or by phone, make sure the supplier you deal with has a reasonable return policy and that you make a decision within those limits.
I assume your teacher knows you don't like the B46 and have gone back to the 4C. Maybe, since he (she) apparently likes it, he'd consider buying it from you to sell to another student.
Karl
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Author: TAS
Date: 2013-10-03 02:42
I strongly recommend the Theodore (Ted) Johnson TJ3 mouthpiece. The B45 (46) is a Ford. The Johnson is a Rolls Royce.It pairs exceptionally well with a Vandoren 3.5+ or 4 reed, or, the Gonzalez FOF 1.25 or 3.5 reed.
The mouthpieces retail for about $250.00 but you can get a discount. Google and find a dealer ( I prefer CIC in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio).
Ligature: stay with a silver ligature that holds the reed and allows for minute adjustments up/down/sideways.
Growing up, I picked out my mouthpieces in the living room of the legendary mouthpiece King Frank Kasper in Cicero, IL. I sold my set of four several years ago.
The Johnson TJ3, to me at least, is better than any Kasper I played.
Good luck.
TAS
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2013-10-03 03:05
I think the teacher you have prefers a much more resistant setup than you do. It wounds like the very open tip made it too fuzzy and resistant for you. I'm not sure what to say about the parental gift situation, but I do have one idea that might work. Send the B46 to be refaced. The cost is cheaper than a new one from certain people, so you could say (and honestly) that you think it is good but it could be better if someone hand finished it.
I know Brad Behn has been doing a $50 dollar price for vandorens and ricos, there are probably a few others that are priced similarly. $50 seems to be a standard low range fee for refacing, some charge near or over 100.
Even if you get it done for $75, you'd be below the cost of a new one. $75 is the standard rate.
Ideally, you would have gotten a better model of Vandoren if you had done a little more research. We all are guilty of blindly following a teacher without stopping to ask why, so that is to say that I did the same thing with mouthpieces when I was younger!
The closer tipped vandorens seem to work best for me. The M13, M14, M13 Lyre, M15 models respond much easier and have an easier blow-through. The B46 is a large tip opening that just makes it more resistant and can restrict the ability to get a more compact sound. People do play them and a good player can make it sound good, but I don't think it's because of the setup most of the time.
Also, you could suggest the idea of having a backup and a different model so you have options? Perhaps could work. =)
Good luck. If you can get another vandoren, try some of the ones I mentioned. I think the amount of fuzz and resistance will be much less.
I almost forgot my disclaimer: I do not have affiliation with any of the people or brands mentioned and have nothing to gain from people using their services.
-N
Post Edited (2013-10-03 03:06)
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2013-10-03 03:49
With that mouthpiece, you might want to try a lighter reed. Since it's more open, you might do well with a 2.5-3 instead of a 3.5. I'd try a Fobes Debut, if for nothing else, a good backup. I have a student that just switched to this after starting on Eb, and she sounds great on it. And, it's much less expensive than any of the Vandorens!
You might be able to try some mouthpieces at a music store, or see if some companies would send you a few to trial.
Good luck, and I, too, have no affiliation with any of the above products!
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2013-10-03 11:37
All of you have made great points. One reason the M13, M15, 5RV etc. are so popular today is because they are less resistant than the mouthpiece you have. I remember when my daughter was in high school several years ago, and she needed a new mouthpiece. She tried one Vandoren model after another, and didn't sound good on any of them. Finally, she put on a M-15, and both of us instantly knew it was the right mouthpiece for her.
If you're going to stick with the B46, I agree completely with Ron's suggestion about a lighter reed. I might try some 2 1/2s, perhaps Rico Reserves (or Reserve Classics) or Vandoren V12s. Some might disagree, but you could even try some 2s.
If you decide that you really need another mouthpiece, perhaps you could sell the B46 on the popular auction site. You would still lose money, but it would ease the sting a bit.
I also agree with Ron about the Fobes Debut. It's an amazing mouthpiece for the price.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2013-10-03 17:14
I've had very good results with the Rico Reserve mouthpiece in the X5 facing, both with my students and with one or two professional colleagues to whom I recommended it. At a "street price" of under $100 it's a bargain!
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-10-04 00:50
Karls suggestions are good, Tas is not. You can't assume what someone elsees likes will be good for you. If that was the case everyone would be using one or two mouthpieces, period. It would be best if you were able to try several on a trial basis, many mail order stores will send you 3-4 to try. Even within a certain make and model, like the Vandorens or Rico Reserve, there are many different facings and you may prefer one and hate another. I would never presume to tell you what the best MP is for you at any price without you trying them first. Every moutpiece is different even with the same make and model and for sure, every player is different. Need I say more?
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: woodsclarinet
Date: 2013-10-04 04:55
I got it in store at Ted Brown music. They have something like a ten day return policy so I don't think returning is an option. I have kept the mouthpiece in great condition and only used it for about two weeks with a bite protector strip so it is in perfect condition. I'll probably sell it for half price or something and just buy a new mouthpiece, after trying a few out of course. The funny thing is, when I tried the B46 in the store it was great, but I was using a 3 reed then so that is probably why.
Thanks for your input,
Dylan
Dylan
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Author: snilsson
Date: 2013-10-04 09:38
I briefly tested a Yamaha 4c mouthpiece just for fun and found it to be similar to my Vandoren B40s. So much so that I probably could play a concert straight away on a 4c with no worries.
About a year ago, I tested 5 B40s for a week in a truly blind test. Four of them were perfectly indistinguishable for me. The fifth had a minor flaw.
However, the test taught me that the position of the reed is crucial. Moving the reed sideways, ever so slightly, does make a difference.
I ended up buying two new B40s. My old one badly needed a replacement and it's a great feeling to know that you have an identical mouthpiece in case of an emergency. (I swap between the two every month, or so.)
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2013-10-04 11:23
Dylan, you might have solved your problem, and you might not have to get another mouthpiece.
As Ron correctly pointed out, the B-46 is a somewhat open mouthpiece, and it is designed to play with a softer reed.
You said you used a no. 3 in the store, and it was great. Why not go back to a no. 3 now? Some band directors and some private teachers push their students to go to harder reeds needlessly. It seems to be a badge of honor in some places to use a 3 1/2 or a 4 while others are "only" using 2 1/2s or 3s. I remember being part of this so-called competition when I was younger, and it's so unnecessary.
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2013-10-04 15:53
> I got it in store at Ted Brown music. They have something like a ten day return policy so I don't think returning is an option.
tell them that it was a birthday present so it was laying unopened for long time. If it is in great condition, they might exchange it for B45 or B45*. Those are more free blowing good luck
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2013-10-05 00:05
Dylan,
I've played the B46 and it can be a nice mouthpiece--very free and very open-feeling. I bought it many years ago when Dave Howard (LA Phil Bass Clarinet) played as guest principal with the San Diego Symphony. He got a great, big, dark sound on it (but I have come to believe that that's just him!). I think Dave is now playing on B40s.
Anyway, I tried it again recently when I had to play a contemporary work with multi phonics and it was the only mouthpiece I had success with. In general I still like playing it, but not particularly for classical music.
It could work for you but as noted above, it will take a softer reed. I suspect something more like a #3 V12 or Rico Reserve (non-classic) may be a workable choice. Since it is a somewhat open facing with more of a medium length lay, you may find that thinning the tip of the reed will yield more playable reeds.
As suggested above you might be able to have it refaced to something more moderate.
As for the 5RV-Lyre, it is a much more middle-of-the-road mouthpiece than the B46 and would probably play well with #3.5 reeds.
As others have noted, the combination of mouthpiece and reed is very personal. Most mouthpieces will play well with certain types/strengths of reeds but not so well with others. Experimenting to find what works best for you can take lots of time and money unless you find someone or somewhere that has a lot of samples.
Without such experimentation, it's probably best to pick any quality "medium-lay" mouthpiece, adjust reeds for it and live with it long enough to play it well.
Good luck!
Bob Barnhart
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