 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2013-10-01 05:13
hello BBoard. I have been trying out three different Backun barrels. Fat Boy (granadilla), Moba ( granadilla and cocobolo) within an a short period of time I new I was going to choose one of the Moba barrels. The Mobas tune well and sound great, but different. Ive had people vote on which one sounds better and its pretty much a tie.
Now the part I need your help with. the granadilla barrel is much more resistant than the cocobolo. Its almost uncomfortable to play after playing the cocobolo. It it common for granadilla barrels to feel more resistant than there cocobolo counterparts.
thanks for any replies
AAAClarinet
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Author: Maestro_6
Date: 2013-10-01 05:28
Hello. Seeing as you have one barrel of each, you may find that this can just be qualities of those specific barrels. However, I have played between many styles of Backun Barrels of both grenadilla and cocobolo wood, and I can't help but feel slightly less resistance in my cocobolo barrels.... So, I do see where you are coming from. FWIW, I currently am using a cocobolo MoBa barrel with a cocobolo traditional bell on my Bb clarinet.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2013-10-01 13:32
Very likely this is nothing to do with the timber, other than slight bore changes, either deliberate, or on account of slightly different responses of the timber to the curring tools used in manufacture. Or possibly a slighlty different surface texture, on account of the finishing, and the grain cavities in the surface of the timber.
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Author: William
Date: 2013-10-02 18:37
I think resistance and tone quality have much more to do with the inner dimensions of the bore than the material from which it is made. Same goes for clarinets. My advice, go into a totally dark room where you can't see the barrels, play each one and then decide which one works best for you. Play well, my friend..........
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-10-02 18:54
my theory is that different materials behave different when treated (machined, filed, turned, spun, whatever) and thus, when come to rest, have slightly different dimensions which in turn might cause a different behaviour while being played.
I do no believe that a material's inherent properties are the cause, as in a clarinet it is (unlike the brass in eg a trombone) mostly inert, acoustically.
--
Ben
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-10-03 13:15
tictactux wrote:
> I do no believe that a material's inherent properties are the
> cause, as in a clarinet it is (unlike the brass in eg a
> trombone) mostly inert, acoustically.
>
Why is the brass in a trombone (or any other brass instrument) more actively involved (less inert) acoustically than the wood of a clarinet?
Karl
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-10-03 17:03
I agree with tictac that the machining characteristics can be a factor via dimensional tolerances. However; I have a few metal clarinets and I have not observed their having significantly different tonal characteristics than my wood ones. On the other hand, I have one aluminum barrel and I'm inclined to think it has an effect on tone charcteristics due to its thermal conductivity. There are so many variables involved in producing sound with a clarinet that it is very difficult to isolate one of them for study. And then you have the player's variables. Why do people have different voices?
Bob Draznik
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-10-04 15:14
Karl asked: "Why is the brass in a trombone (or any other brass instrument) more actively involved (less inert) acoustically than the wood of a clarinet? "
Because all brasswind instruments have a large surface area compared to a very thin wall thickness; whereas a clarinet has a small radiating surface area and the material of the instrument wall is very thick. Mathematically, it can be demonstrated that the amount of sound radiated by the vibrating wall of a clarinet (body/barrel/bell) is below the threshold of audibility.
Consider a loudspeaker cone (say a woofer): It can vibrate and radiate sound to the air because it is a large flat or conical surface made of a very thin and flexible material. What if you were to take a 12"-diameter speaker cone made of treated paper and shrunk it down to about 1"-diameter and made it of 3/8"-thick grenadilla? How much low-frequency sound would it radiate?
This is not a perfect analogy as speaker cones undergo back-and-forth movement as a unit (so-called "rigid body motion") at their fundamental frequencies, but the analogy is good at higher frequencies where a loudspeaker flexes into numerous small rings which move relative to each other to produce higher-frequency modes. Clearly a small and rigid cone would not be able to produce audible higher modes at all.
A saxophone is an intermediate case between the small-area, rigid clarinet body and the large-area, thin brasswind instrument body; so for saxes the body material makes some difference in the tone quality but not quite as much as with a trumpet, trombone, French horn, etc.
If we had the ability to make a few clarinets with EXACTLY the same bores, toneholes, pad heights and seating, etc., we could conclusively demonstrate that NOBODY can hear the difference in body materials between various woods, plastic, hard rubber and even metal clarinets.
"Hear me now and believe me later" as Hans and Franz used to say.
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2013-10-04 15:27
> If we had the ability to make a few clarinets with EXACTLY the same bores, toneholes, pad heights and seating, etc., we could conclusively demonstrate that NOBODY can hear the difference in body materials between various woods, plastic, hard rubber and even metal clarinets.
shh.. Tom Ridenour might hear you!
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-10-04 15:50
I happen to agree with Tom Ridenour on this issue. I applaud him for making and selling hard-rubber clarinets as we both believe it is an excellent material for the application (yes, better than wood). Not as pretty, though!
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2013-10-06 17:45
(Ted Ridenour)
Lol! Funny. Can't speak to metal and plastic but Tom has conducted several blind tests with Texas band directors (many were clarinetist as their primary instrument, but some I'm sure were not.....have ears either way) judging hard rubber instruments vs wood and in every case the listeners picked the hard rubber instrument as the one they prefer. I can't recall how many times this was done or how large the majority opinion was as its been quite a while.
I'll have Tom take a look at this post and potentially share his opinion on different types of wood.
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2013-10-06 18:01
Written by Ted Ridenour.....
Also. Most of what Tom wrote in the article "The Grenadilla Myth" wasn't a "woods no good message " but that hard rubber has at least as good acoustic properties as wood (this is of course opinion, shared by a growing number of players though) and is dimensionally stable, machines to tighter tolerances than wood, and is less expensive to work with. Most of the advantages he brought up were economic in nature (won't crack and require replacement, easier to work with than wood so if can be offered at a more affordable price). Clarinets made from wood can, when made correctly as is the case with anything, play wonderfully.........I've never heard Tom say otherwise, his preference for hard rubber has more to do with the stability and consistency it gives you from horn to horn (though Tom personally does prefer the tone and color of hard rubber to wood).
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-10-06 22:36
I share the positive opinions regarding hard rubber. I've owned 2 of Tom's horns and still own one. I didn't sell the other one because I didn't like it but only for inventory control purposes. Hard rubber will suffer from elevated temperatures that wood will tolerate.
Bob Draznik
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