 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: whonderwhy797
Date: 2013-09-01 02:06
Hi all, I am a very troubled music major and have been for the past 3 years. My frustration lies in the fact that I feel unable to articulate well on my instrument. I literally sound like a beginner despite practicing very consistently and meticulously. My professor says I use too much tongue pressure, so when I use less "tongue pressure" it sounds extremely sloppy ("thu thu thu"). I can't even begin to tell you how frustrating it is. I keep a steady and fast air stream and try not to bite (which is also a problem apparently.) These problems have been occuring for the past two years, most likely my whole life. I am very close to quitting because I feel I'm not made to play the clarinet. I love the instrument so much and aspire to perform but I really want to get past the teacher bs of "you're getting better" when someone doesn't know how to help solve your problem. Please help. Is there anyone out there who has problems with tonguing
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Author: Clarnetamaphone
Date: 2013-09-01 02:13
Wonderwhy,
You sound very frustrated. I think I know someone who may be able to help you. If you want to send us an email at the address below and I'll have Tom (Ridenour) address it.
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
Might not be right away but I'll make sure Tom does get back to you.
Ted Ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products
Ridenour Clarinet Products
1-888-AKUSTIK
ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2013-09-01 02:14
There are people on this bboard that are very good at describing different ways to go about articulating. ( different explanations for different people getting to the same goal ). I'm sure they will respond. Stay strong, don't give up.
AAAClarinet
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-09-01 03:22
It seems likely that you're trying not to do so many things "wrong" that you've got yourself all tied up in what you're doing and need a more positive approach. For instance, it may not be enough to "try not to bite." You need a positive image in your mind of what you "should" do. "Don't bite" can lead to all sorts of equally counterproductive contortions and leave you with less control than you have when you bite down on the mouthpiece and compensate with very hard reeds. "Use less tongue pressure" may ultimately be important, but you need to concentrate on what you want the tongue stroke to feel like. You're using all that pressure (assuming you *are* using too much) because it works better than when you think you're using less. That it "sounds extremely sloppy" when you use less pressure probably means that you still aren't in control.
It often (in my experience, usually) is counterproductive to concentrate on what *not* to do. I don't know what your teacher has actually said, but you seem only to be getting negative feedback, whether he means it that way or not, and no real idea of what feelings and actions you need to substitute for the ones you're trying to get rid of.
There has been lots written here - search for "articulation" in the archive and you'll probably get tons of hits. Much of it concentrates on changing the concept of "tonguing" from one of "attacking" to one of stopping the reed with your tongue and then letting go to start the next note. This can't be done in a wishy-washy, sloppy way, but it can be done without the heavy pressure involved in trying to *make* the reed start. A continuing air stream is important. The reed will start itself, if you're generating enough of an air stream to drive it, when you let it go (release it). Then all you need to do is stop it again in preparation for the next note. There are much more detailed descriptions in the history, and probably other posters will go into more detail here.
To not bite, you have to have a concept of what an effective embouchure *does* feel like. You can't just release all the firmness in the muscles around your mouth and keep any sense of control. Often it's helpful to try playing double-lip. Not so much because it "won't let you bite," but because it's much easier to establish an efficient, productive mouth shape with the upper lip in a position parallel to that of your lower lip. You may need some initial help with it, and if your teacher isn't in favor of trying it, you may have to keep it in your practice room. It doesn't need to be a permanent change or even a full time commitment. Once you feel the shape and the muscular control it takes to maintain it, you can model your single-lip embouchure on the same shape and probably be much more comfortable.
"Don't" is rarely as useful as "do" in most anything you try. Good luck.
Karl
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2013-09-01 12:48
Human tongues come in a variety of shapes and sizes, and for this reason, the standard advice given to students doesn't always work well for everyone. Check out what Roger McKinney has to say about tonguing. http://www.tcnj.edu/~mckinney/tonguing.htm
His suggestion to use the "n" or "nu" syllable is not the usual advice, but his reasoning makes sense. It might work for you, and it really wouldn't be a major adjustment.
Karl has some excellent advice about trying double lip. It didn't work at all for me when I was in college, but I went to it about five years ago and I'm staying with it.
I could start giving you other embouchure tips, but you probably have a good basic concept of embouchure already. One thing worth considering is the type of reed you're using, and its condition. Biting sometimes comes from using a reed that's too hard, and if that's the case, it's worth trying one that's slightly softer. Biting and other embouchure issues can also come from using reeds that aren't balanced or aren't flat.
Did your professor require you to get a certain type of mouthpiece, or did you select one on your own? It's possible that your mouthpiece needs some tweaking, or it's possible that it really isn't the right one for you. Trying to play a mouthpiece (and reed) that doesn't feel right can be a miserable experience, and it can also lead to bad embouchure habits.
Good luck to you. I hope you're able to find some solutions.
Post Edited (2013-09-01 12:51)
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Author: JKL
Date: 2013-09-01 20:00
Did you try to change the point of touching the reed? I tongue to the very tip of the reed, precisely I hit the gap between the tip of the reed and the tip of the mouthpiece, so presumably I touch both the reed and the edge of the mouthpiece. This may not be appropriate for all musical demands, but: in my opinion - if you do tongue this way, it CAN´T sound "sloppy" - the pre-condition is that you don´t move your embouchure while tonguing.
I myself use the tip of the tongue, occasionally even the bottom side of the tongue. This may sound strange, but it works very well for me.
If you work very sensitively with your tongue you will notice that you need more energy to stop the vibration of low tones than you need for high tones. For example: play the lowest E very loud and put your tongue very tenderly on the reed, and you will notice that the sound is going on. With the same energy of the tongue you will be able to stop the vibration of a tone in the altissimo register without problems immediately.
For me the difference between the syllable "d" and "t" is irrelevant. It is physically irrelevant, because the difference between d and t has nothing to do with the tonguing of the clarinet. When speaking "t", there is an air stream like an "h" before the vowel appears, when speaking "d" the vowel is present from the beginning - this difference is for clarinet tonguing beside the point and perhaps only useful as metaphor. For me clarinet tonguing is a case sui generis - I compare it rather to licking at an ice cream. This is for me more useful than the imprecise and nonscientific "t"-"d"-discussion.
(hope this is intelligible - I´m not an english native speaker)
JKL
Post Edited (2013-09-01 20:17)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2013-09-01 20:23
My first advice is to remember that you're merely stopping the vibration of the reed with your tongue.
The next step I'd take with you if you were a student of mine is to be sure that your air remains the same when you're "tonguing" as when you're not.
Unfortunately it's hard to write about this stuff. One of the exercises I use with my students is to move the tongue closer and closer to the reed until the sound stops. This _does_ create a ticklish sensation as the tongue gets close. However, it can help you determine how much tongue is required to stop the sound.
Hope that's relatively clear...
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-09-01 20:32
I have some info on my website that might be of some help to you. Apparently you have a different tongue structure then the "average" player and your teacher is trying to teach you the way of the book. The so called "proper" way to tongue. The best advise I can give you, assuming you can't figure it out yourself, is to find a different teacher that is more open minded to experiment with you to find what works for you, instead of how they were taught themselves. As a teacher for 50 years I've come across students like you and have gone many different directions to find a solution and have always been successul to a point. A lot depends on the students willingness to work hard and experiment as well. I had a student one summer that was studying with a very famous teacher on the west coast a number of years ago and when I asked him what he feels he needs to work on that summer he said tonguing. It was apparant to me after one lesson that he could not tongue well the conventional way. After experimenting with many different way to tongue, he had a larger tongue than usual, we found a way to work around it and he left me tonguing very very well. A few years later he was playing in the marine band in Washington DC. You may be tonguing to high, to low, to close to the reed, to far from the reed, using to much muscle in the back, not using enough muscle in the back, constristing in your throat when you tongue, closing the air off in the oral cavity when you tognue to mention a few things you might be doing wrong for you. Get the idea? Hope my articles gives you some insight.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2013-09-03 14:48
You might find an idea here:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=316748&t=316712
Don't get bogged down. Because different people have different problems -- as I spend the first few paragraphs discussing -- there's quite a lot there. But it represents for me the landscape I travelled through in finding out what was wrong with my own articulation.
It tries to describe what the tongue HAS TO DO in order to articulate rather than WHAT THE TONGUE DOES in doing it. People's tongues differ.
Tony
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