 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: donald
Date: 2013-08-30 20:31
I tried these in Sydney, and quite liked the tonal quality they brought to my setup but wasn't able to test for intonation as not one of the sample barrels would go on all the way- they were obviously milled with quite small tenon diameter as i have never experienced this issue with any other brand (Buffet/Backun etc etc were tried on the same day). I found myself wanting to buy one because they LOOKED very novel and attractive, but did like the sound.
dn
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Author: DaveKessler
Date: 2013-08-30 22:39
We've had them. Intonation is quite good. They give a very rich, centered tone. I personally don't care for the inside curve of the rings cosmetically.
I also don't find any difference in playability attributed to the ring plating (Buffet claims there is). Lastly, I think they should call the "gold" ring a "rose gold" or "pink gold" ring as it is definitely not a yellow gold look.
Dave Kessler
Kessler & Sons Music
http://www.kesslermusic.com
Post Edited (2013-08-31 00:43)
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Author: kilo
Date: 2013-08-31 10:25
Quote:
ICON barrels are extremely supple in every register and the different finishes produce interesting acoustical variations. Gold produces more high harmonics and timbre, silver frees up and rounds out the sound, and black nickel seems to stand halfway between the two, producing a more compact effect.
Really? I mean, really?
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Author: ruben
Date: 2013-08-31 11:48
question: are they "geared" to Vandoren mouthpieces or larger-bored American mouthpieces:e.g. Fobes, Lomax, etc.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: donald
Date: 2013-08-31 18:40
yeah, and guess what? if you mill a series of grooves around your mouthpiece that makes it sound better too! (i agree- marketing bullshit, but it's not like Buffet invented marketing)
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2013-08-31 21:08
In the diagram of bore on the Kessler website the shape claimed to be "inverse cone" looks amazingly like a normal cone to me.
Perhaps the copy writers should pass their copy by the designers before publication!
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2013-08-31 21:26
I think it is IMPERATIVE that every clarinetist --beginner and advanced, amateur and professional alike-- immediately purchase one of these new Icons, along with several barrels each from ME, and from Morrie, and from Clark Fobes, and EVERY boutique barrel maker that they can think of...and in all types of the wood and synthetics that they offer.....and for each clarinet they possess. That way, they can make definitive comparisons. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) .
Disclaimer: Get your orders in fast, since all of the artisans mentioned will be shortly traveling to Switzerland or the Cayman Islands.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-08-31 22:24
So let's just get this right - these barrels are all identical in terms of bore taper. The only difference between them is the plating on the socket rings.
Well, that's me sold!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: donald
Date: 2013-09-01 00:40
While it is true that i have once in the past bought a barrel because it "looked cool" I'm not particularly interested in the "look" and certainly don't believe that the plating on the rings of a barrel will influence the sound (I suppose the weight/density and compression of the rings MIGHT, but just thinking about it gives me a headache).
What I can say is that these barrels (for whatever reason) did seem to have a different sound/feel/response compared to standard Buffet barrel and Moennig/Chadash barrels that I played immediately before or after. It was also noticeable that they seemed to uniformly exhibit a similar characteristic (wheras the other barrels were far less consistent in terms of timbre and response). So much time has elapsed since then that I will not attempt to describe the timbre, but i recall being annoyed that 1) i could not test the intonation and 2) the sample set of Icon barrels were not for sale.
I currently play a wooden barrel (nickel plated rings) with a rubber sleeve bored by Les Nicholson on my B flat clarinet, and am very happy with that. At the time i tried the Icon barrels i was looking for an A clarinet barrel and was very lucky to find an excellent Chadash barrel that i like very much.
dn
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2013-09-01 06:27
Buffet is a little late with this plating trend (which is all it is really). It feels like it is starting to fade away a little bit. It was very strong a few years ago when a bunch of companies came out with many different finishes (especially for saxophones). Though in the flute world it seems like it would stay forever...
Post Edited (2013-09-01 11:47)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-09-01 11:29
Although to be fair, they did start the hype with the Elite which had gold plated pillars, so it does seem they're still flogging this dead and very much decaying horse.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Air Guard Gal
Date: 2013-12-29 20:05
I had an opportunity to try these barrels last week at Midwest Clinic in Chicago.
I do play on a Vandoren CL 4 mouthpiece, so you know, and my horn is an R13.
I play a Chadash barrel, which I adore.
Obviously, I found no difference in the timbre with the different colored rings. We just have to ignore that bit of foolish marketing.
I must tell you that I found that my horn sounded true to my own sound when playing the Icons, but it gave my sound far more clarity...I have a fat, dark sound. This was like bringing a picture into better focus. No, I'm not telling you that I need more focus in my sound. Somehow, I felt it took the rough edges off--no air, no interference, just a clear, fat, dark sound when I played them. Like clarified butter.
They certainly varied from barrel to barrel...and I'm quite sure it had nothing to do with the finish of the metal!! Find a place to play some. You won't be disappointed.
I also tried the Buffet Divine.
I enjoyed it very much for the few moments I had my hands on it. I would say that the Icon barrel coupled with my R13 would bring my gear to the level of the Divine...nice. Let's see, spend thousands on a new horn, or $195 for a new barrel?!!
Don't buy the set. Do go out and try a few of the Icons. I don't think you will be disappointed.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2013-12-29 17:41
Obviously no difference with the plating of rings is what I would assume also.
Upper Mgt. of Buffet swears that there is a difference that can be heard.
Back in November, I had lunch with the East Coast Regional Manager of Buffet (a Trumpet player by trade), and he swore that he heard a difference between the Silver, and the Gold. I rolled my eyes, but he strongly suggested for me to just try both and see for myself.
I now have both, and will try and see. I'm primarily a Backun player, but do keep my eyes/ears open for various options/tone colors.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: donald
Date: 2013-12-30 03:30
Air guard gal wrote...
"They certainly varied from barrel to barrel...and I'm quite sure it had nothing to do with the finish of the metal!!"
Yes, I too find it difficult to believe it had anything to do with the finish on the rings, but like you found they sounded quite distinctive. It may have been that I experienced a very uniform quality/response because the ones that I played were from a set of samples chosen to exhibit as "ideal barrels" to represent the new model (and were not for sale). It is likely that they had been play tested and chosen by someone somewhere, and were not just a random selection of the new product.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-30 14:22
I think it's nearly certain that Buffet hand-tweaked the display models (by making small alterations in the bore), both to play better and to sound different.
Ken Shaw
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Author: audio96
Date: 2013-12-30 23:58
I tried one about a week ago. They played very well. I currently have a Moennig barrel and think the ICON sounded is about the same. Have to admit the ICON barrels look nice. I tried all 3 "flavors" Sounded very similar. Don't see how a thin plating would make a big difference. Didn't buy one.
Post Edited (2013-12-30 23:59)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2013-12-30 19:08
This New Years Eve, after ages of testing and development, I will be introducing my latest model, the Wroloutha Barrel. I am sure it will be well received.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: donald
Date: 2013-12-31 12:39
Not one single post in this thread attributes any characteristics in tone to the plating on the rings, in fact every posting- including those from the few here who have actually played the Icon barrel- is cynical or ambivalent about the possibility of it having any influence.
Good to see that contributers to this BB can easily identify advertising hype, though a pity that the thread has descended into mocking this (obvious) hype rather than being dominated by actual opinions and observations of the product being discussed.
Also pity that Buffet have managed to effectively divert attention away from the fact that they have produced a fine product with their silly advertising copy. I'm not sure if having many fine options to choose from (where after-market barrels are concerned) is a curse or a blessing, but this product is at least an addition to those options that is worth investigating (if you happen to need a barrel).
dn
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2013-12-31 13:45
Donald - my posting did say that someone heard a difference in the plating. Albeit he wasn't "unbiased", but he did believe they sounded differently.
A big objection is the taper is not inverse. It flares out like a cone instead of an upside down cone.
I did like it though!
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-12-31 15:37
Well, there it is, I read it on the Internet so it must be true.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-06-05 05:59
Al Gore didn't invent the internet, but Tim Berners-Lee really didn't either. ARPANET was created jointly by government scientists who wanted to share information. It grew into DARPANET when Defense Department people saw the possibilities. Many people started using DARPANET while it was still technically available only to the Defense Department, and it morphed into a public entity. Al Gore recognized the possibilities very early and pushed for its development.
Ken Shaw
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Author: ClaireAnnette
Date: 2015-06-05 12:11
Is Buffet telling us that the standard barrel that comes with a new clarinet is not sufficient so they made this as an upgrade?
And if it is better, why are they not standard on professional clarinets?
It seems if they wanted the clarinet to sound best and
it might with these, I do not see why it should not come with a new clarinets?
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Author: DaveKessler
Date: 2015-06-05 20:08
ClaireAnnette wrote:
>Is Buffet telling us that the standard barrel that comes with a new clarinet is
>not sufficient so they made this as an upgrade?
Not at all... Buffet is simply trying to offer something that their existing design doesn't offer. Everyone has a preference. For some, it will be the stock barrel whereas for others, it could be the Buffet Icon, the Buffet Chadash, Buffet Moennig or a myriad of custom barrels from other makers.
Simply put, 1 size does not fit all.
Of course, there is also the more cynical side of me* that wants to say "yes, they are... how else could they get you to spend more money if they didn't offer something better?"
*of course that is just the cynical side of me, the real side of me sides with the first answer.
Dave Kessler
Kessler & Sons Music
http://www.kesslermusic.com
Post Edited (2015-06-05 20:09)
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Author: ClaireAnnette
Date: 2015-06-06 05:48
So, if that is the case, include one of each with new clarinets.
Or let purchaser chose which they want included.
Just my opinion.
It is like the Microsoft Surface. Tablet with a neat keyboard, but must be purchased separately. Realistically, who is going to pay price for that tablet without its major feature: the keyboard?
It is same as pharmaceutical companies turning medications that go OTC into extended release prescription version. The latter more expensive, the former not covered by insurance.
Or potato chips at same price, but smaller bag. Or rescaling in small portions for supposed diet portion control, and charging more for less.
Or insurance plans with less coverage.
Very popular concept these days.
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Author: Jbosacki
Date: 2015-06-06 09:09
I guess I'll be unpopular opinion here!
I tried out all three one black nickel, one rose gold and two of the silver, and I loved both of the silver ones, I felt the rose gold was a little warmer, something I'd like for chamber playing and the black nickel was REALLY REALLY bright and tinny, I didn't care for it.
I personally felt I could tell a real difference between the three, granted it could have been just coincidence that the 65 and 66 silver I tried were "good" and the Nickle plated one I tried wasn't but it was at a buffet table and their demo set, so I doubt their "road" set wouldn't be tested to make sure they were all "good" ones, but again it's different for everyone.
And I don't think it was just me "wanting" the barrel to sound bad, I was actually really disappointed. I thought the black nickle looked really sharp aesthetically and was looking forward to getting one just for that reason! (Gotta have my clarinet looking good to!) I just had such a negative reaction from it from first note on it really scared me off.
As a side note. I'm used to playing Backun Barrels. I have a Traditional, a moba and Indigo wood Ringless.
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Author: ClaireAnnette
Date: 2015-06-06 11:46
Yep, I suspect "most" might say that is the case, so why not put an improved one there in the first place?
Almost seems a waste of exotic wood when one thinks about it.
It just seems to me that at "professional" level, for cost of them, a company should be releasing their best efforts so the result will be best clarinet.
Marketing aside, if an item is a good product, people that demand that will purchase same.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2015-06-06 16:28
Hi Again,
What is really needed here is a double-blind test that would include a spectrum analysis of the sound using each barrel, some qualitative data from the player and listeners (with player behind a screen), then using statistical software (SPSS should work) do a cluster/factor analysis. The clusters could then be labeled something like youthful, bold, focused, mature, bright, dark, latte, mocha, etc.
Oh, I forgot, what about changes in the temperature, relative humidity, and sun-spot activity?
Back to the drawing board.
HRL
Post Edited (2015-06-07 15:29)
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