 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: maxcoletti
Date: 2013-08-25 19:09
Should I use resonance fingerings for the throat tones only in slow passages where these tones are prominent, or also in fast passages? On the one hand it's more convenient to use the same fingerings all the time, on the other resonance fingerings are more cumbersome.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-25 19:36
Use resonance fingerings where the note is on a strong beat. Don't use them on a weak beat. Don't use them on the resolution of a suspension or apoggiatura, i.e., from dissonance to consonance.
Where using a resonance fingering interferes with technique, use the standard fingering. If the change is too quick for you to play, it's too quick for the audience to hear.
It's possible to learn to use resonance fingerings in fast passages. If you can do it, there's no reason not to. There are people who never use the "pinch" fingering for throat Bb, but always use the side key.
Ken Shaw
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2013-08-25 20:37
I use the resonance fingerings all the time regardless of tempo. You should try and incorporate them into your technique.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-08-25 22:04
I like to use resonance fingering on throat tones, particularly when the next note is in the clarion register.
Gary K
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-08-26 02:36
I use a resonance fingering for the "pinched" Bb ALL THE TIME (only drop it when the passage is just too fast). My preferred fingering for this Bb is 2 and 3 of both hands which works great in ANY situation (arpeggios, scale-wise etc.). As for "A" and "G," I have used just the first finger of the RH for "A" and both 1 and 2 of the RH for "G." The only problem for me and the "A" and "G" resonance fingerings is that they may bring the pitch down too much of your volume needs to be on the louder side.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2013-08-26 23:42
Yeah, I use them on the throat tones whenever the passage allows it.
"Don't use them on a weak beat. Don't use them on the resolution of a suspension or apoggiatura, i.e., from dissonance to consonance."
Ken - why do you say that? I'm not sure why you would want to differentiate if the resonance fingering allows for better, more fluid transition of tones and better pitch and sound quality. Why wouldn't you use it on a weak beat or apoggiatura?
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2013-08-27 14:32
Over the years, I've gotten in the habit of using them almost exclusively.
BUT,
I play a Buffet RC Bb and recently picked up a Yamaha SE A. NOW, I'm in trouble. The Yamaha needs fewer resonance fingerings than the Buffet, and goes flat when some of them are used; so I've got to practice my stuff on the Yamaha to avoid being out of tune.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-28 16:34
clarinetist04 -
Once a beginner can play confidently to low E, I play the first three notes of the "cat" theme from Peter and the Wolf http://www.ysubands.org/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Spring_2012_Clarinet_Audition.350125957.pdf and have him/her imitate me, adding one phrase at a time. Then I say "OK, now let's make a little music" and point out the slurred appoggiaturas from D to C and C to Bb near the end and the A to Bb at the end. I say that when you see things like this, you lean on the first note and come away to the second.
You do this because the harmony requires it. Appoggiaturas are non-harmonic notes that create a dissonance. This is resolved to consonance on the next note. (The same is true of suspensions). You must bring this out by emphasizing the dissonance, creating (harmonic) pain and then relieving it. To make the dissonance stronger, you use resonance fingerings where possible. To relieve the pain, you play softer and with less resonance.
You can recognize most apoggiaturas and suspensions because a note on a stressed beat is slurred down or up by step to a note on an off-beat or unstressed beat. But you also need to hear the harmony in your ear, knowing which notes are dissonant and which are not. For much more, see the section PHRASING IS BASED ON HARMONY from my posting on the Beethoven 8th Symphony http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=20&i=768&t=768.
Each meter has stressed and unstressed beats. For example, in 4/4, the first beat gets a strong stress, the third beat gets a moderate stress, and the second and fourth beats get no stress. Your playing must match the pattern. Therefore, you use resonance fingerings on beats 1 and 3, but not 2 and 4.
I think the best way to learn to hear harmony is to work on a solo part until you have it "engraved" into your finger muscles and can let your fingers play it automatically. Then, start your fingers and read the bass line, thinking about which intervals are dissonant and which are consonant.
This is basic musicianship - how you get from playing notes to playing music.
Ken Shaw
Post Edited (2013-08-29 20:52)
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2013-08-29 05:09
I get what you're saying about suspensions and stressing the dissonance - sure, playing musically is a given in this conversation. I guess I got hung up on how you put it. I'm not sure I agree on your explanation on why NOT to use resonance fingerings on off-beats or resolutions - basically the non-critical aspects of a phrase to emphasize the musical nature of a passage.
In theory, a resonance fingering shouldn't make a note "pop" - it should facilitate good tone in an area that is prone not to sound all that great and it's up to the musicians other tools to make the sound fluid and seamless. I would think it better to be able to control one's volume or, maybe better put, balance through more conventional means rather than settling for the resolution with poorer sound quality. We're digging in the weeds of minutiae here!
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2013-08-29 14:52
Yes; though it's true that excellent playing differentiates between appoggiaturas and resolutions, it doesn't work simply to map appoggiaturas onto resonance fingerings.
Appoggiaturas, 'outside the harmony' and resolving into it, can often usefully be thought of as representing 'not belonging' as opposed to 'belonging', and can carry -- or at least, hint at -- the powerful and varied human emotions associated with not belonging and belonging, as well as the complex relationship between the two.
So sometimes appoggiaturas may yearn, sometimes be defiant, and sometimes even be something like 'playfully rejecting':-) It's not simple to characterise, because what we do needs to defer to the overall context.
To 'yearn', an appoggiatura might begin with a LESS immediately pleasant sound -- the aural equivalent of a squeeze of lemon juice -- compared to its resolution, which could be played less intensely, but nevertheless with a resonant sound and fingering.
Tony
Post Edited (2013-08-29 15:17)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-08-29 16:54
Am I right (although it depends on the context) to play accented appoggiaturas by giving them the stress and then back off on the resolving chord note to give the sense of tension and then security?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2013-08-29 17:45
I suppose that by definition, an ACCENTED appoggiatura has to be accented. But some appoggiaturas are distinctly non-violent.
Even 'stressed' is too strong a word for some contexts, where 'caressed' might be better. It all depends on how you think the dissonance/resolution is being used by the composer. (But consider 'lovebites':-)
The effect of 'banging things together' is appropriate only very rarely.
Tony
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-29 21:18
Tony -
As you say, there are many kinds of appoggiaturas, but by definition they're non-harmonic notes on strong beats that resolve to consonant notes on weaker beats or off-beats. That's what happens in the Peter and the Wolf "cat" theme I wrote about.
Therefore the resolution is always less emphasized, and you play it softer (and probably less resonant) than the appoggiuatura. There are many ways of doing this, one of which is to avoid a resonance fingering on the resolution. I may also make your magic decrescendo, roll more of my lower lip over my bottom teeth, change my tongue, soft palate or jaw position or purse my lips into a slightly "aardvark" face.
I wrote specifically to clarinetist04, who, it seemed to me, may not know this rule. Since the question was about resonance fingerings, that's what I wrote about. I had no intention to set an ironclad rule.
Certainly there are times when you want a clear tone (e.g., on throat Bb), where you may want to use a resonance fingering on a resolution. But you must also make sure that the resolution is softer.
If I had a full-Boehm Bb with the low Eb and chose to play the cat theme on it in Db, the first appoggiatura would be on throat Bb, and I would certainly use the resonance fingering (or, more likely, the second trill key) for it, and I would probably not use a resonance fingering for the resolution on Ab. If I did, I would find another way to play the Ab softer.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2013-08-29 22:03
Everybody –
The appoggiatura structure is to do with tension/relaxation, and so need not map onto louder/softer, or more resonant/less resonant. The actual sound quality is often more important, particularly in slow music; there, dynamic differences may interrupt the line too much, whereas what we might call 'ee/ah differences' do not.
Actually, you can find appoggiatura-like structures that go across bar structures, and so don't fall on strong beats; they're worth knowing about. They fall on the strong components of phrases -- in fact, on their beginnings -- and constitute important expressive devices. (The first 'technical' bit in Spohr I(i) is a good example.)
Above all, as I keep saying, you have to consider the overall context. Nothing is more off-putting than someone laying into the appoggiaturas unremittingly, as though doing that constitutes musicality in and of itself. Each one is potentially different; and actually sometimes the very act of NOT insisting on an appoggiatura can itself be expressive in the context of other more insistent ones. (The third bar of Schumann I(i) is a case in point.)
Being sensitive to the harmony doesn't mean ramming it down people's throats. After all, it's there whatever we do.
Tony
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-08-29 22:33
Some do and some don't. I only use a resonance fingering for my Bb, I like the quality of the others without them and they tune well on my clarinets without them. I do use the Bb fingering all the time whenever possible because I'm so used to that fingering. 3rd finger down in each hand plus the F-C pinky key. Of course using the Bb fingering as well. I'm a professional clarinet player in the BSO. Some in my section use different fingerings for each throat note, some don't.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-08-29 22:43
I generally put (some or all of) my RH fingers down from open G to pinch Bb as force of habit - but when playing throat A or Bb with the trill key fingering that's not so easy, but throat Bb with the trill key fingering is generally a good note.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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