 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Martin J
Date: 2013-08-12 19:00
Hi everybody.
It's my daughter who is the clarinetist and I simply feel my way through it and help her as best I can!
Can somebody tell me what difference barrel size makes to the clarinet? She is currently on a buffet E13 with a 640 barrel.
Thanks in anticipation for your help.
Martin
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-08-12 20:23
640 means 64 mm in length. This is (usually...... at least for most typical French clarinets) a "shorter" length than usual and would make the clarinet play HIGHER in pitch compared with other instruments around her (everything being equal of course).
A typical length barrel these days is 66mm (that is, millimeters by the way), however, a lot can depend on how you play (such as particular technique, or amount of experience) as well as the tendencies of the clarinet and the tendencies of the mouthpiece.
So in short; LONGER barrels play LOWER and SHORTER barrels play HIGHER. What you need for your situation may very well be 64mm, but this would play too high with a piano if I were playing with it on my horn.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-12 23:00
A longer or shorter barrel makes a larger percentage difference in the bore length on the notes that speak through a short length of tubing than through a long length. Thus, using a longer or shorter barrel can throw out your intonation. The throat tones (G, G#, A and Bb at the top of the low register) will be particularly affected.
If your daughter is having intonation trouble, it's best for her to get with a teacher, who can give her exercises to strengthen her embouchure, have her use slightly stronger reeds, or change to a mouthpiece that is higher or lower in pitch. Changing a barrel length is not the solution except where the high and low registers are not in tune with one another.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Martin J
Date: 2013-08-13 08:13
Thanks for the information Ken.
The truth be known, my daughter's always had second hand and played whatever as come with it. She's aiming at grade 7 and it is now at the point where balance needs to be crisper in all the notations. She's on a B40 (E13) with a 640 barrel on and 2.5 reed.
Give that I really don't have the knowledge and given that she is 11 years old we are feeling our way in the dark. This is compounded by the music teacher not being very good and only denoting that she needs to try different constructs to find her comfort zone. This is not too helpful given that the possible mixes is huge!!
Where is the middle default ground for starting.
I hope I'm not reading too much into it and simply blaming the tools for her 20% mishaps.
Appreciated.
Martin
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2013-08-13 08:45
Considering her age, I would invest in a good teacher before investing in an equipment change… A good teacher will advise you on equipment purchase and will also improve the clarinet playing skills of your daughter …..
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Author: Martin J
Date: 2013-08-13 08:56
Totally agree but she's been with her since 6 years old........and she really does not want to change teachers. I'm caught between a rock and a hard surface.
Thanks
Martin
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-08-13 11:51
Your teacher should not be looked at as a "BFF." Perhaps just think of your daughter's present teacher (or try to get her to think of it this way) as one of several coaches that you have available to you.
It isn't even a matter of whether one teacher is better than another. Rather, one could say something in one way that will resonate with your daughter and allow great improvement while it could have been what another had been saying over and over again in a way your daughter wasn't understanding.
Having a different perspective is a very healthy thing......have a 'stable' of teachers !!!
................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-08-13 13:18
Martin J wrote:
> Totally agree but she's been with her since 6 year
> old........and she really does not want to change teachers. I'm
> caught between a rock and a hard surface.
>
I'm not sure I completely understand this. Is this teacher a clarinetist? Has your daughter studied *clarinet* since she was 6 with this teacher?
> The truth be known, my daughter's always had second hand and
> played whatever as come with it. She's aiming at grade 7 and it
> is now at the point where balance needs to be crisper in all
> the notations.
>
> Give that I really don't have the knowledge and given that she
> is 11 years old we are feeling our way in the dark. This is
> compounded by the music teacher not being very good and only
> denoting that she needs to try different constructs to find her
> comfort zone. This is not too helpful given that the possible
> mixes is huge!!
>
> Where is the middle default ground for starting.
I think your question about a "default middle ground" has no real answer, or maybe the answer is that she is there now with the E13 and the B40. I'm not especially partial to the B40, but lots of people play on it.
The problem is that you don't really understand yourself what needs to be done, and an 11 year old is probably too young to make her own judgments about equipment. Does "aiming at grade 7" mean that she has already achieved grade 6? The teacher *needs* to take more responsibility in this.
It isn't really clear (they sound to me like Google translations) what terms like "balance needs to be crisper in all the notations" and "needs to try different constructs to find her comfort zone" mean, which isn't your fault if you have no experience with this. I can't tell if these are the teacher's terms (although I hope not) or your attempt to relay what you've heard, but the task of figuring out what needs to be changed in either her equipment or her technical approach should not be left on your shoulders or on those of a student that young.
If the teacher is a clarinetist, you need to press her for a lot more guidance than it seems she's offered so far. If she isn't it, if her strength is teaching music fundamentals to young children, it may be worth continuing with her for whatever general musical instruction she is able to provide and for the sake your daughter's comfort in continuing the relationship, but adding a clarinet instructor/coach to help specifically with clarinet issues. The present teacher might, if she's really not knowledgeable about clarinet, be supportive and help arrange something, especially given your daughter's attachment to her.
One way or another, you need guidance. Starting at a "default middle ground" and somehow working outward is just not a productive way to develop a young player - there are, as you've pointed out yourself, too many possible directions and too many blind alleys.
Karl
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Author: Martin J
Date: 2013-08-13 14:19
Thanks Karl for taking the time in answering and directing.
Google terminology? No, it's lay man terms which I have invented....i.e. balance simply relates to consistency when she plays etc. Crispness across notations refers to a slight 'blur' in some notes. This was only evidenced to me when she tried a friends mouth piece in which it started to sound better. With this in mind I started to question the equipment.
The teacher? I think the previous respondent had a point in not necessarily replacing but rather adding (at least to start with).
Grade 7 is a way of and will probably be next year. She needs an exam break after doing her written exam etc for grade 6.
Thanks again
Martin
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-08-13 15:07
What music is your daughter playing currently? Many of us in the U.S. don't really know much about what Grade x means in terms of technical or musical level.
I didn't mean any criticism of your post when I mentioned Google Translate. It's just that sometimes those translations make vocabulary choices that are technically correct but not idiomatic or, worse, have different idiomatic meanings than the one that was intended in the original language.
It sounds from your explanation that your daughter has some pretty typical issues with tone production and perhaps note-to-note connections. One direction you might try on your own, since you mention that her friend's mouthpiece made a difference, is to try a more middle-of-the-road mouthpiece, which may be what you really meant to ask about in the first place. The B40 has a rather open tip (the distance between the reed and the tip rail of the mouthpiece). It's at the high end of the openness (1.19 mm, if you'd like to know the details) spectrum in the Vandoren mouthpiece line. It might make a difference in her comfort level if she tried something with a smaller opening - maybe a 5RV (1.06 mm) or even an M15 (1.03 mm). This may, going back to what you wrote before and reading it slightly differently, be what the teacher meant as well, that your daughter would need to try mouthpieces and find the one that she's most comfortable with. If this is what the teacher actually meant, she's right. The only problem is that you may need to try a couple of different ones, even staying within the Vandoren line (there are many other makers as well and all their mouthpieces have different playing characteristics).
There still may be lots of issues that your daughter needs help with, and getting it from a clarinetist is important, but you may need to go back to the present teacher and try to get her to make herself clearer to you about what she's suggesting. Don't be hesitant to ask her what she means if you are unclear about it. She should be glad to help enable you to help your daughter.
Karl
Post Edited (2013-08-13 16:15)
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2013-08-13 23:33
If your daughter does not want to change teachers, simply "supplement" her lessons with a clarinet specialist, maybe once a month. For one thing, you will be able to get the answers to your questions.
Also, over time, you might be able to wean her away from her current teacher slowly.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
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