 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: maxcoletti
Date: 2013-04-29 18:28
What is the more common fingering for the D major (or B minor) scale: B4 with the left pinky and C#5 with right, or B4 with right and and C#5 with left? For me personally the second one is easier, maybe because I have practiced it more...
The same question can apply also to the C major scale...
Thanks,
-- Max
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2013-04-29 18:38
As per my instructor, the former. So from the C# up is all in the right hand. I feel more comfortable with the latter. So I practiced both, and ran scales in both to be comfortable with both. However I find that for QUICK passing notes (for example c# to d trill) I'm probably faster with the left pinky.
I didn't think it was a big deal, but he's a big proponent of putting all the motion in the same hand as long as possible. So forked fingering for Eb/Bb during a chromatic to keep the motion in the left hand, and the scale as above. I will say that for arpeggios it's MUCH easier for me to keep the motion in the same hand, but for scalular passages, it changes day to day, but I've finally become comfortable with both.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2013-04-29 18:39
I usually teach B4 left and C#5 right because students must inevitably use B4 right and C#5 left on E major, B major, F# major.
Ultimately -- we have to be able to use both options easily.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: curlyev
Date: 2013-04-29 22:02
B4 left and c#5 right is what I've always used...the other way feels weird, but I can see how it could be useful.
Clarinet: Wooden Bundy 1950s
Mthpc: WW Co. B6 refaced by Kurtzweil
Lig: Various Rovners
Barrel/Bell: Backun
Reeds: Legere 3.75
OKC Symphonic Band (just started this summer)
*playing 22 years (with a 5 year hiatus) and counting*
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-04-29 22:28
I've always considered the primary fingering for C5 (not C#) to be the rh fingering. For me it's unarguably more awkward to reach back for the lh C5 every time I play the note. If rh C5 is primary, then in scale passages lh B4 must also be primary, which makes my primary C# fingering (after a B4, not in achromatic passage) rh.
This breaks, of course, as soon as the key signature or a specific passage also includes D#. B4-C#5-D#5 or the reverse normally should be r-l-r.
The bottom line is that if a listener can't *hear* what fingering you're using (because you don't do it cleanly) it must be OK. There is no difference in pitch - the same tone holes are open or not - only a difference in where each key is located.
In general, I try to keep things consistent (and teach the same to my students) - rh C5/lh B4 becomes the pivotal combination even when C disappears in A major (but F# melodic or harmonic minor, both with D# go the other way). Once D#5 is involved, everything for me changes consistently.
Unless you have an instrument with an alternate D# on the left.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-04-29 23:30
ok, I'll be the dissonant voice again.
For me, if you practice the C# on the left as much as possible (and by that I mean every instance unless it's impossible such as moving to the next higher G# immediately) you will build GREATER facility when cases arise for the necessity. Leaving it for the moments when only needed leaves your left C# at a MUCH greater disadvantage.
I don't necessarily apply this to the left hand C as KDK does, however I would suggest then practicing a fairly large quantity of Ab arpeggios to get the Left C up to speed.
Since I have started my left C# fetish (for lack of better verbiage) I find D major one of the most delightful keys to be in.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Taras12
Date: 2013-04-30 00:07
Paul Aviles wrote:
> ...
> Since I have started my left C# fetish (for lack of better
> verbiage) I find D major one of the most delightful keys to be
> in.
>
> ...............Paul Aviles
>
Interesting; I'm self taught right now and both "classics" that I use teach the L C# first and use the RH fingering as the alternate fingering. There's a note in Hovey (my 3rd classic) about progressions and when to use L vs. R hand fingerings. I've got to scour the book and see if I can find the reference tonight.
Tristan
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2013-04-30 02:27
I tell my students to be equally comfortable with both C# fingerings because they both have definite uses. In other words, I teach them that there is no "standard" fingering for that note.
I then teach that LH B and RH C are "standard" but that there are places for their alternates. In G major arpeggios, RH B works wonders...
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2013-04-30 03:35
I find RH C# feels easier, but depending on what I'm doing, it sounds cleaner on the left. I'm guessing that because I'm not dealing with the 'ring finger and pinky finger on the same tendon' thing. Whenever I play C (especially) or C# in the RH and am doing quick ascending passages, the D gets skipped a lot since those fingers tend to lift at the same time if I don't consciously make sure to hold my right ring finger down long enough. As for C, I think I play it on the left more than the right if the passage doesn't dictate which fingering to use.
----------
Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-04-30 10:35
I wish clarinets had an articulated F#/C# key (like saxes and oboes) which means you can keep the F#/C# key held down and it closes automatically when E/B is played so a good B-C# trill can be done - some full Mazzeo systems had this fitted. Also an articulated Ab/Eb key (like oboes) that's closed by the F/C key - this will make C#-D#/Db-Eb trills a doddle and also B-D# and C-Eb slurs will be cleaner.
I know these sort of things won't ever make it onto production models, but it would be nice to bring clarinets on par with saxes and oboes when it comes to some gadgets as Boehm system clarinets have remained pretty conservative instruments in comparison when it comes to their keywork.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2013-04-30 13:08
I've always done B right, C# left on the D scale. I don't know why but I wonder if my left-handedness subconsciously has anything to do with it?
I have some students who show a preference for one fingering and some, a preference for the other. IS there a right or wrong way or is it just personal preference? Some good points have been brought up here.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2013-04-30 13:53
I'm a lefty, but I've never connected any impact on any fingering from being so. But perhaps that's just me...and I play all sports right handed...
...so now that I think about it I'm not a good reference point.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-04-30 13:57
In sharp keys such as D, A, E and B Major I usually take the B in the right and the C# in the left. For C and G major it's usually with B in the left and C in the right.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-04-30 14:02
It's "just preference" only in the sense that a player must respond to his or her own needs. If one doesn't seem better/more comfortable than the other, IMO you still need to make a decision in the practice room about which is going to be your primary fingering. Otherwise, in difficult technical situations you run the risk of ending up negotiating with yourself on the fly and not reacting quickly enough to play a passage smoothly.
Keep in mind that the point of practicing scales isn't just to play scales. Part of the reason for practicing them is so that in real music situations you won't have to work every passage out note-by-note - you can rely on a certain amount of patterning, or muscle memory, to allow quicker execution than you probably could manage by a note-by-note approach.
Clearly, it's important to be comfortable with both sets of lever keys (and with alternate fingerings elsewhere on the instrument). But, again IMO, there shouldn't be a doubt in a player's mind about which is the fingering he will use as a first choice in a given succession of notes under ordinary circumstances.
Inexperienced students tend to favor whatever they were taught first. I've had students who started before their rh pinky could comfortably reach the C key. The lh C is less of a stretch, so they learned to use that first. Getting them to change later when their hands were bigger was often difficult and in the grand scheme of things not a campaign I ever wanted to make a priority. Other kids who learn the more traditional rh C first sometimes find lh C very hard to find on the fly and will try almost anything else to avoid using it.
The thing that makes the alternate left and right lever keys different from other alternate fingerings is that only the hardware changes - the same tone holes are involved so the keys produce acoustically identical results (unlike sliver B3/F#5, chromatic F#4, the side throat Bb or the various Eb4/Bb5 combinations).
Karl
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Author: BflatNH
Date: 2013-04-30 14:07
Both approaches are necessary to have.
Keep motion in the same hand if you can.
Consider 'sliding' as an option (A.Galper had some exercises) too.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2013-04-30 14:57
Left B, Right C#- I was taught to keep motion in the same hand.
While it is important to have all of the alternate fingerings comfortable, there are certain patterns that seem to be better and make more sense.
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2013-04-30 16:40
I prefer RH B and LH C sharp. I find the position and angle of the LH B lever a bit tricky for my small hands/pinky. However I have made myself practice on both sides in order that I develop as much fluency as possible. I can do it very smoothly most of the time but occasionally the tip of my finger can slide off or I worry that it might do that in the middle of a fast passage. For my own peace of mind
I am going to get that lever lengthened but wanted to do as much as possible with my technique before resorting to permanent modification.
Post Edited (2013-04-30 16:41)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-04-30 17:06
Paula, is that your 1010? You could have the tips of the LH lever touchpieces flattened out (instead of bent downwards as they usually are) which will add a couple more millimetres to them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: maxcoletti
Date: 2013-04-30 17:31
Wow, what an interesting thread! Thanks, everybody, for all your answers :-)
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2013-05-01 09:05
Hi Chris,
Yes it is on my 1010s and my Eatons. The LH C# and C are okay as they involve more of a lateral movement of my pinky but I have to raise it up for the B lever which takes up some of my finger length and leaves only the very tip of it on the key. Flattening it out sounds like a good idea! Thanks :-)
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Author: mrn
Date: 2013-05-01 22:16
I think that the LH B -- RH C# is better for routine practice in the D major scale. Since you HAVE TO use the RH B -- LH C# combination for E major and B major (at least on a standard Boehm system clarinet), using the LH B -- RH C# for D major and A major ensures that you gain proficiency with both combinations.
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Author: eaglgenes101
Date: 2013-05-02 05:02
I happen to have a habit of sliding my left pinky between B and C sharp. Might have something to do with the structural quirks of the clarinet I tend to use.
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