 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: PortBluePickles
Date: 2013-04-10 05:01
Hello, I'm new here :D
I'm a freshman in high school and this is my fourth year playing clarinet. I'm currently using a plastic selmer B flat clarinet--as I can't really afford a new one--with a 5RV Lyre mouthpiece and Rovner ligature. I currently use traditional vandoren reeds (strength 3) and I really want to improve my tone. I was wondering if I should start using V12 reeds instead, and which size I should get. I also don't want to buy a box of reeds and have to throw half of them out, which is what I end up doing with my vandorens. I have an audition coming up and I want to sound my best! Any other reed suggestions or tips on improving my tone would be great help. Thanks!
--Emily
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2013-04-10 05:43
Emily- Vandorens have been popular for many years, but you should try different brands to find what really works for you. I am very happy with Rico reserve classics. I'm not very familiar with vandoren mouthpieces but others here can help you with what strengths to try. Best of luck to you.
AAAClarinet
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Author: curlyev
Date: 2013-04-10 06:20
I think if you are playing a 3 right now on traditional Vandorens, a 3 would work on the V12s (unless you feel like you need to go up in strength, which I wouldn't worry about before an upcoming audition). Another brand to try is Grand Concert Select Thick Blank.
Good luck and best wishes on your audition!
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2013-04-10 09:55
Instead of throwing half of your reeds away why don't you learn how to make them work for you by clipping and modifying the tip. That to me seems a waste of money and reeds.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2013-04-10 12:10
Find a friend who plays them and ask for one to try out. Or send me an email. I can send you a few.
Steve Ocone
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2013-04-10 12:18
The best way to improve your tone would be to take private lessons.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2013-04-10 12:30
Various reeds will give you different feel, response and some different tonal characteristics. I don't know that a reed in itself will improve one's tone. I agree that lessons with a good teacher will help. Learning to work on reeds will help your success rate. I would also suggest you listen to a some great players and try to emulate what you hear.
There are so many cuts and strengths of reeds out there. There are fans of each one. V12 are different, not necessarily better. It depends on what works for you on your set up. Find one that works for you and play. Don't get hung up on the equipment.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-04-10 12:57
Emily -
Please tell us what you don't like about your tone. Is it too bright? too dull? stuffy? too thick? too thin? Do you stick out? Or can't you make yourself heard? Each problem has its own solution.
Different reeds may help. I like the Rico Reserve Classics, which are almost all good and are very consistent. But changing reed brands is not a panacea. You yourself must learn how to make many sounds, some of which are ugly, in order to expand your range.
Sounding "better" or "improved" is an impossible goal. You need a clear idea of what you want. Begin by reading a wonderful article by the great oboist Robert Bloom http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=94788&t=94788.
Then try to sound like something specific -- an oboe, a cat yowling on the back fence, a sweet lullaby, how you would play to someone you love, and someone you hate.
Listen to great musicians and recreate their sound and emotion. One of my favorites is the Pablo Casals recordings of the of the Bach Suites for Solo Cello. Listen to just the first bar plus one beat of Suite No. 3 and work to produce the energy and force of his playing. Then go to the first few bars of Suite No. 2 and find a way to play with his gentle warmth. Then listen to recordings by John McCormack (there are many on YouTube) and find a way to play a singing line and play each phrase as a whole, as he does.
Ken Shaw
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2013-04-10 19:14
A 5RV with blue box 3's should be fine. Make sure you're rotating your reeds and breaking in new ones regularly.
A good lesson teacher will be able to help you find ways to make the improvements you want.
Then go practice...
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Author: PortBluePickles
Date: 2013-04-13 05:28
Thank you everyone! Sorry I wasn't clear about my sound. I want it to have a deeper and darker tone. I'm going to go to the music store tomorrow to buy a variety of individual reeds and whichever works for be best in the next few weeks, I'll buy a box. Thank you for all of your opinions!
--Emily
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2013-04-15 03:48
Yes, most of us learn to make the best of bad reeds by clipping and sanding and scraping and soaking and all that. But the dismal truth is, and I hear it from most clarinet players who are concerned about good reeds, is that half or more of the reeds in the box will be undesirable to some extent. True, some can be made more playable with a few minutes of work. But a few may NEVER come up to the standard of "the best 2 or 3 reeds in the box" no matter how much time you spend tweaking them. That is a fact of reed life.
Jerry
The Villages, FL
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-04-15 05:31
Yes, I always use V12s and like their sound. Every #3 reed I use needs some daily sanding and wetting before I try them, but I always get 10 good reeds per box, useable in a fairly demanding clairinet situation, the official band of the city of Los Angeles. Good luck!
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Author: morbius
Date: 2013-04-15 15:17
Emily,
I think the 5RV Lyre is a fine student mouthpiece.... it's the one Marcellus used to recommend to start with. However, it is a "long facing" mouthpiece with a fairly close tip opening (you'll probably want to do some research on these topics). As such, reeds with a thicker blank like the V12 will work better in general. Marcellus used to use Morre reeds.... the FOF Gonzalez is a copy of that reed. The quality of cane used in reeds tends to vary a great deal... so, you'll not be surprised that the Gonzalez FOF reeds have not been particularly great lately (which is why I've gone back to making reeds on a Dual). You might want to try Zonda reeds (they come from Zonda pass in Argentina... a great source of cane).
In order for a reed to work correctly, it must be balanced, both horizontally and vertically. They must be symmetrical. If you start checking commercial reeds with a Perfecta Reed micrometer, you'll begin to see why most reeds in a box don't work well. They are usually far from symmetrical. Also, Ronald Vazquez (in his "A book for the Clarinet Reed-Maker) talks about the "point of resistance" which lies right above the heart of the reed. That point is just as important as the side to side measurements. This is probably more info than you want, but should send you in the right direction.
Lastly, I'm not a big fan of the Rovner ligature; it gives a dark sound, but sacrifices the focus of the sound; if you listen to some old Cleveland recordings when Marcellus was principal clarinet, you'll see what I mean.
John Dorch
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-04-15 16:15
morbius wrote:
> Lastly, I'm not a big fan of the Rovner ligature; it gives
> a dark sound, but sacrifices the focus of the sound; if you
> listen to some old Cleveland recordings when Marcellus was
> principal clarinet, you'll see what I mean.
>
John, please expand this just a little more. I was under an impression that Marcellus favored inverted Bonade ligatures with the center removed from the front (the part opposite the screws that holds the reed down) to minimize contact between the ligature rails and the reed. I've listened to lots of old Cleveland recordings. Did he make some of them using Rovner (or some other cloth) ligatures? When did Rovner begin to market his ligatures?
Karl
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Author: morbius
Date: 2013-04-15 16:52
Hi Karl,
You are correct. He did use (as far as I know) the inverted Bonade
ligature with the center removed from the front. I am not aware of him
using (at least he never mentioned it to me) using a Rovner ligature. I
have used the Harrison (Silver) ligature for many years now, and its new
incarnation from Rico is more substantial and works just as well. Greg
Smith might be able to shed some light on this subject.
John
John Dorch
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-04-15 17:45
morbius wrote:
> Lastly, I'm not a big fan of the Rovner ligature; it gives
> a dark sound, but sacrifices the focus of the sound; if you
> listen to some old Cleveland recordings when Marcellus was
> principal clarinet, you'll see what I mean.
>
So, without necessarily wanting to dispute or support the point I think you're making about Rovners in general, I'm not sure what you meant by this suggestion. Were you only offering Marcellus as an example of a more focused sound than you feel players who use Rovners tend to produce?
Karl
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Author: morbius
Date: 2013-04-15 19:18
Karl, this is quite a can of worms, but I'll give you my take on this. Let me say first that I sought our Marcellus because I thought at the time (and still do) that no one else had the quality of sound that he did. His consistent focus through out the entire instrument, the balance between a bright and dark sound, and, as a result his ability to penetrate through the orchestra without necessarily playing FF because of the quality of his sound was unequaled. So acquiring that sound became my "holy grail", so to speak. It started with concept (he used to have a discography which he offered at evening sessions of his master classes). Not only Bonade, but clarinetists such as Ralph McClane (not sure of the spelling). I've also admired Clark Brody (who was also at those master classes) especially in recordings like Scheherazade or Pines made with Chicago. Coming from the west coast, not being obsessed with the "dark sound" was refreshing to me.
So, to answer your question, it seems to me that many of the younger generation of Clarinetists have only a fuzzy notion of what kind of sound they would like to produce. The so called "dark sound", especially on the west coast, became the rage! But my ear lead me in a different direction. I wanted focus above all else, not just because of the quality but I feel it is much easier to play in tune when all the partials line up in the correct proportions. Rovner's ligature did not help me in this quest, so I chose the Harrison after trying a number of different ligatures. (By the way, I play on a Chicago Kasper, which I love).
John Dorch
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2013-04-16 01:36
However, it is a "long facing" mouthpiece with a fairly close tip opening (you'll probably want to do some research on these topics).
The 5RV Lyre is a medium to medium open tip (between 1.08 and 1.12) since they very quite a bit. The facing is by no means a Long facing, even by vandoren standards. The facing is pretty standard, 36, 22, 12-, 5+ type. Their long facing, like the M30, is 40, 25+, 14, and 1.13-1.157
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Author: morbius
Date: 2013-04-16 02:01
Sure, its just a ligature; it's not a religious experience. I was simply stating a preference. I'd venture to say you never studied with Mr. Marcellus, yes?
John Dorch
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Author: brycon
Date: 2013-04-16 02:22
Quote:
I'd venture to say you never studied with Mr. Marcellus, yes?
What does it matter?
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Author: morbius
Date: 2013-04-16 02:38
Ah, a clarinet libertarian. I have no idea what this narrative is supposed to mean, but the idea that you have nothing to learn from those who have succeeded before you is nonsense. And your right; this is not about ligatures.
John Dorch
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Author: morbius
Date: 2013-04-16 02:54
Yes, you are a "clarinet libertarian". Good luck with that.
John Dorch
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Author: brycon
Date: 2013-04-16 05:20
Quote:
Obviously to you, it doesn't.
John Dorch
Correct: I do not evaluate someone's thinking based upon who their teacher is/was. If you actually write something, rather than attempting to speak for Marcellus (sans context), maybe you would not get s--t back from other posters- just saying.
By the way, I own quite a few Szell/Cleveland recordings and listen to them frequently.
Quote:
Along with all my modified Benade, err Bonade, Rovner and KaspAr ligatures.
Jason,
Ha- I love my Benade ligature- gives me so much resonance! I heard some important players in big American orchestras play them too!
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