 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-03-13 13:46
There's a good video on YouTube with Paul Meyer and Eric Baret (a Buffet engineer) discussing the Tosca and the Divine and their relationship to the R13 Prestige and the RC. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=oVmfe8Y9ULI&NR=1.
Briefly:
Tosca has R13 bore; Divine has RC (a little larger and shorter); both are claimed to have improved intonation over the R13 Prestige and the RC; improved ergonomics in keywork; carbon rings; large keys hollowed out underneath gives 60 grams lighter weight and claimed to "liberate" the sound; Greenline inserts in top 2 trill keys and throat Ab, A and register holes, which don't swell and keep any crack out of the tone hole rim as well as stopping the crack; synthetic polymer corks; 650 and 660 mm. barrels; barrels work on both Bb and A.
Meyer gives some nice demonstrations. Hoo Boy does he get over the horn! One commenter complained about his tone, but I think the problem was with a dead room and maybe a poor microphone. Also, he has lots of ping in his tone (like, e.g., Gigliotti and Hacker), and this doesn't record well up close.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2013-03-13 14:53
Wow it sure seems that Buffet is striving for a better product. It will be interesting to see how the professional clarinet community receives these changes. Thanks for the video posting Ken.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2013-03-13 16:24
Yup, that one passage in the video does sound almost "oboish".
Thanks for the link.
Interesting that Greenline doesn't have wood problems recognized by Buffet. Anyone played a Greenline Divine?
Bob Phillips
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2013-03-13 17:34
If these improvements are so great in intonation, why reserve them solely for the most expensive instruments? Does Buffet assume that people who can't afford $6K or more(!) for an instrument, somehow deserve poorer intonation?
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2013-03-13 17:40
Actually the Divine I tried last year when they were released were pretty dreadful both in terms of intonation and tone quality.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-03-13 18:06
Peter, just a thought - just as some narrow bore Buffet players have trouble with large bore clarinets when they try them out, could it be you also had similar trouble seeing as you're a 1010/Elite player and aren't used to Buffets?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2013-03-13 19:15
Nope Chris, my basset clarinet is a Selmer. I don't believe on this nonsense that there is any difference in how to blow small bore and big bore clarinets. I blow it the same way. I can attest to the fact that my new Backun MoBa plays perfectly well in tune.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2013-03-13 20:17
At least after many years Buffet have caught on to what others did years ago.
1. Tonehole inserts have been used by Rossi and others for a long time.
2. Interchangeable barrels Bb/A was standard practice on B&H and many other makes.
3. Synthetic corks - only really needed because Buffet insisted on making their sockets taper which causes the cork to also develop a taper and then looseness. with parallel socket and good grease a cork can easily last 10-20 years.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-03-13 20:35
I appreciate all the little technical inovations. I can't help think that Buffet is feeling heat from Selmer and any number of custom makers who are providing truly competitive horns these days.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-03-13 20:36
I didn't mention anything about there being a difference in how anyone should blow different size bore clarinets as there's no difference. The difference is it's a case of being accustomed to your own instruments and playing another different one which you're not accustomed to.
I've lent people one of my Selmer CTs while their clarinet has been in and while most of them didn't take to it initially, they got accustomed to it at the point when their clarinet was ready for collection. Some preferred the CT over their R13, 926, etc. but others didn't. They had no problem playing it, they just had trouble getting used to it for whatever reason, be it keywork, tonehole sizes, tone, tuning on certain notes, weight or loads of other reasons.
While I've played several Buffets that have come to me for working on (to be sure there aren't any sympathetic rattles or fuzzy/stuffy notes), I can't say I was ever gobsmacked by any of them. I wasn't particularly taken by a couple of Toscas I worked on both in how they played and also didn't think much of the general quality of build and finishing, but then again I've never liked how Buffet clarinets play in comparison to Selmers and Leblancs.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2013-03-13 21:14
Fair point Chris though I can't say that's really been an issue for me.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2013-03-14 01:32
Here is a link to Martin Frost playing the 'Divine'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90MW0xj2YQc
The sound quality in this clip is a little better than the Paul Meyer clip. Frost has technique to burn!
I have a pair of Toscas. I think they're a great instrument, no problems with intonation or the finish of the instruments.
Chris.
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Author: sdr
Date: 2013-03-14 10:55
Remarkably uninformative video --- a lot of unsubstantiated statements. "Carbon fiber rings make the instrument blow more freely." Really?!!
I am curious how the bonding is done to have Greenline inserts in a wood horn. The Greenline material may be incredibly stable and facilitate maintenance of a good seal against the pad, but the wood will swell and shrink. I would think that eventually the insert would come loose or leak at the glue joint or something similar. It will be interesting to see how a 5-10 year old Divine holds up.
-sdr
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Author: michael13162
Date: 2013-03-15 03:13
In my opinion, the tone quality from both the Paul Meyer and the Martin Frost videos have a somewhat distinct quality. It almost seems like they're articulating too hard. This is more apparent in the Paul Meyer video. Having an "oboe" like sound is a good description.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2013-03-15 09:58
Perhaps they are using Legere Signature reeds which do have an oboe like sound.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-03-15 10:25
While the sockets have carbon fibre rings, the tenons have nickel silver rings on them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-03-15 20:27
Not really the topic here, but I like to guess who I'm listening to when I run across a clarinet on the radio. I was hearing a clarinetist with great technique and a really euphonic sound but it was distinctly more diffuse in character with much 'harder' articulation (about as far from the German concept as one can get). I thought this might be a British player like Marriner but it turned out to be our good friend Paul Meyer.
This does bring up an interesting point though. In the video, Meyer says that Europeans prefer a larger bore but I always thought the French preferred smaller bore horns. Any Frenchmen out there wanna dispute my contention?
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2013-03-16 04:46
I'm not French but I'll have a shot.
By larger bore he's meaning the difference between the RC bore and the R13 bore. According to Greg Smith in an earlier post, the bore at the middle is the same however the RC then has a wider flare moving to the bell.
Both are small bores compared to the Peter Eaton Elite.
This site gives some interesting information about bore sizes:
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/clbore.htm
Chris.
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