 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: thecuriousclarinet
Date: 2013-03-04 22:41
So I'm a bit confused. I'm sure there are many paths for musicians, but I have a specific problem I'm thinking about.
I want to win a job in an orchestra. Obviously, I would start with an appropriate orchestra for my ability and work my way up.
So here's my question: How do you get your first job? There are orchestras that are "per-service" and I would feel very confident auditioning for them and hopefully winning a job. That said, none of these types of orchestras are hiring for clarinet in my area. I would have to move. But obviously, the pay isn't enough incentive to move.
So...do you just have to move to wherever the "per-service" orchestra job is, so that you can start somewhere? It feels like if I just keep waiting for an audition to open up near me, I will be waiting forever. What does one do in this situation?
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Author: thecuriousclarinet
Date: 2013-03-04 23:09
Didn't really answer my question, though it is along the same vein of thought as it is difficult to get a job in music.
Where I'm at right now though is that I want to try. I love teaching privately and I can certainly make a living at it--I am just a bit confused on the playing in an ensemble part.
I guess I'm confused because it just doesn't make sense financially. But, if I wanted a job for the security and good money, I'd be in a different field.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-03-05 00:22
The first question to ask yourself is how well you play. The competition out there is ferocious, even for non-paying positions in amateur reading orchestras.
The second question is whether you can play clarinet to the exclusion of everything else. There are lots of people practicing 10 hours a day with no social life. If that isn't you (and it certainly wasn't me), fuggedaboudit.
If you are cut out for the life of a performer, you should already have a big network of people who know you and love your playing. If not, set about building it. You get jobs by having people remember you, who will recommend you and tell you about openings.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2013-03-05 02:02
^Well said! Can't emphasize that more! Meet lots of people and any performing opportunity you get, DO IT! You never know who is in the audience!
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Author: JHowell
Date: 2013-03-05 04:03
"Making it" and "starting out" are two different things.
If you wait for auditions to play in an orchestra you might be waiting a while. Lots of players get experience working as subs. Play for the principals of local small orchestras. If you're good and easy to work with, and if you can play auxiliary clarinets, you might start building a freelance base where you live.
Many players move (or commute) for small jobs that don't pay enough to live. But they pick up teaching, maybe a day job, and they get heard. They learn the craft, and take bigger auditions. So, maybe take some auditions and see how it goes, for a reality check if nothing else. If you win, then the discussion of whether the pay is sufficient incentive to move makes sense. It doesn't matter how little an orchestra pays if you can't win the job. Once you have a job offer, then you can start looking for the other pieces of the puzzle.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2013-03-05 17:33
After you evaluate your audition competitiveness. Take a look at the number of openings available --that is essential none for clarinetists. Turn-over is slow, and the number of orchestras is small. I think that Ed Palanker, to whom you were referred held his chair for over 50-years.
Even in the amateur orchestras, openings are few. In the New Westminister Symphony Orchestra, the clarinet section has been static for around 22 years; and the players NEVER miss as rehearsal or performance.
Bob Phillips
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2013-03-05 19:12
I could also ask the question,
"How do I make it starting out as a professional football player?"
Except at 1% of the pay, with 1% as many job openings.
You'll probably start out playing in a community orchestra or two for free, then try to claw your way up to a group that pays gas money. If you get beyond that, you're doing better than most.
Treat orchestral performance as a hobby that might throw you a few bones once in a while.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-03-05 21:34
Don't consider Los Angeles as a source of clarinet employment, but you could probably play for free in some community bands! The orchestras are full up, even if you play for free!
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2013-03-05 22:01
Hi Curious:
Here's what I tell College students in my lectures on "Careers in Music":
Hints - What To Do
1. Be at places where people can help you (clubs, bars, parties, social events, social networking)
2. Be flexible
3. Be adaptive
4. Look for and become involved in any new projects (create work, new ideas)
5. Volunteer your time and efforts
6. MOST IMPORTANT! Stay healthy, take good care of yourself, it's up to you!
7. Be tireless
8. Be on time, never late
9. Be yourself, don't play-up to others
10. Meet new people, be open
11. Send emails, texts, messages & phone calls to promote yourself
12. Be where musicians/teachers hang- out
13. Have parties, discussion groups, chat rooms where you can meet new people
14. Ask others about their recent successes, be enthusiastic about it
15. Be careful of what you say and to whom
16, It's important to remember names, faces, places & jobs you have worked
17. Use your computer & all the newest devices to stay in touch and remain current
18. Don't be a Mac or PC snob, they both work. Learn to type well and use them
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
Post Edited (2013-03-05 22:06)
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2013-03-05 22:04
BTW Curious:
Check this out also!
Hints - What not to do
1. Don't double book yourself
2. Don't accept work, then turn it down
3. Don't exploit a situation, don't take advantage of someone else's misfortune
4. Don't deal with Conductors/Deans over Contractors/Dept. Heads
5. Don't pass out resumes, CDs, etc. on the job
6. Don't show up late - ever!
7. Don't show up too early, or warm-up too long or loud
8. Don't be sloppy, lazy or too cool (dress appropriately)
9. Don't put yourself down
10. Don't expect to get the job as a sub, even if you play or teach well
11. Don't expect your cell phone to ring, get a text, or email for work. But if you do, be enthusiastic about the work
12. Don't be negative
13. Don't talk down the great players/teachers
14. Don't play solos, concertos or excerpts from other jobs at your current job
15. Don't be surprised if the smallest, unexpected, least paying & least likely job turns into a huge success for you. Ex. Sesame Street, Wonderpets, SMASH
16. Don't read on the job...books, email, texts, newspapers, etc. Even if others do
17. Don't take off your shoes on the job, or things you do at home
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-03-05 22:50
I've known John Moses since 1958. He's accomplished the most difficult balance of all -- being aggressive enough to go for the best jobs, but nice enough to be liked and respected by everyone.
Plus he's worked his butt off. Some people may play like him, but nobody is more reliable or more willing to take on every challenge.
Ken Shaw
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Author: JHowell
Date: 2013-03-06 02:05
Great lists, Mr. Moses. I went to school with a trumpet player whose motto was, "You can't always be the best player, but you can always be the nicest guy." As a personnel manager for a small orchestra, I can attest to all of the points above. You have to play very, very well to make money playing the clarinet, or any instrument, but how well you play only goes so far -- being professional, amiable, and tactful count for a lot.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2013-03-06 16:27
Military bands do hire and many of our finest orchestral professionals were such
richard smith
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2013-03-06 19:30
Army needs musicians....over here at Ft. Jackson I'll keep a spot ready for you.  We're authorized four and only have three right now.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2013-03-06 23:40
My fondest regards to the great Ken Shaw! A friend for many years & a great source of encouragement to all who know him.
Do look into the Military Bands and music programs. Many of my students & friends from Juilliard worked their first professional jobs in the Military. Go for it if want to work hard and be appreciated by all!
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2013-03-07 01:56
Question for Mr. Moses on tip no.7. What's wrong with showing up too early? I do it all the time.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-03-07 02:00
Some great players were in military bands -- Larry Combs (West Point), Anthony Gigliotti (Navy) and Kalmen Opperman (West Point) for example.
However, they all served during wartime and volunteered to avoid being drafted into combat units. (So did I.) They were one-termers, not career men. When I was at West Point in 1965-68, about a third of the band was one-termers. With the end of the draft, these players disappeared, and the good armed forces bands became permanent homes for career men.
Also, it's not a bed of roses. The bands are military units, and there lots of officers who *seriously* care about how shiny your shoes are and want to be saluted at every opportunity. For me, this was to say the least distasteful. For horror stories, search for postings about Lt. Col Francis Resta at West Point.
Alexi can tell us most about how it is today.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2013-03-07 12:42
I'm not a professional player but I have a couple of other thoughts - Don't forget to thank those who have given you work - no need to go overboard but a thank you as you leave, may be a compliment if you think the ensemble played well, a Christmas card if a group has given you several jobs during the year won't do any harm.
Secondly, don't haggle over your fee at the last minute - I heard of a case of this just last night and the guy will not be getting the gigs again. If you are in a union or whatever that requires you to be paid a certain rate, make that clear at the outset.
Another thing I would agree with is the need to create work - I know that the OP was about orchestral work but most of those I know who have made a successful career in music have taken the initiative in some way which will at least provide experience and income while waiting for that job to come along - starting a chamber ensemble, starting an educational project, becoming an agent for other musicians - precisely what you might do depends a bit on your other skills, interests and personality.
Good Luck
Vanessa.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-03-07 14:07
welcome to the most difficult profession to get a decent job. The vast majority of clarinet players that want to make a living as an orchestra player don't achieve that goal. First of all, the competition is brutal and second you have to go to where the job is if you're lucky enough to win an audition. In the meanwhile you do anything you can to make a living until you change professions or win a job.
Teach privately and or at a local school, cummunity college etc. or work in a music store or other retail store or anything else to make a living. If you play sax and can play commericial music try to get into a band to do weekend gigs to earn income. This is a tough brutal field. Someone suggested reading my website, not a bad idea for some ideas on what it takes to get a symphoy job. Good luck.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: clarinet60
Date: 2013-03-07 18:31
To get started, it actually helps to pick up the phone and call as many local orchestras (not the top pro groups, but community orchestras, free-lance groups, etc..) that you can and ask them about substituting, auditioning, who their contractor is , etc.. This worked for me - not just once, but a couple of times. Sometimes they may need a sub in a pinch, and a quick audition to see if you can play the parts will work. No, this won't get you into the top groups, but it connects you with the people, and you should continue to call over time. You may get frustrated with the first 10 orchestras that you call, but there could be a glimmer of hope on the eleventh! Even subbing for rehearsals will help, and I can tell you that there have been times that I needed a sub and couldn't find anyone. Get connected! Go to their concerts and meet with the clarinetists as well as the conductor. Most will say they don't need anyone, but they might for some pops concert or some other gig that nobody wants to play (I once got called for a gig with Henry Mancini with the local orchestra that was being done to fund the musicians' union retirement fund and their normal players didn't want to give their time for free...I did!!!! This is certainly not a way to make a living as you'll have to work a day job to make ends meet, but you can find opportunities if you SELL yourself. Yup - it's not fun but sometimes it works.
Post Edited (2013-03-07 18:35)
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Author: William
Date: 2013-03-08 14:55
Want to be a professional musician?? Lot of good advice already given, however, I would suggest marrying someone rich because chances are, you will not be making a lot of money playing gigs. Many pro's have to maintain clarinet studios "on the side" or moonlight with other less desirable jobs to make financial ends meet.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2013-03-08 18:53
I moved from where there wasn't much work, to where there was mostly likely to be work: Melbourne, Australia to London, UK! Worked out well for me, it took me 5 years in bad (non music) jobs and lots of practice out of hours to get my current job. But it was worth it.
I'm a long way from family and friends and "home" but I'd do it again if I had to. I guess you have to ask yourself if music is your first and foremost love and what you'd sacrifice for it. If you want it badly enough, you'll throw everything you've got at it and it's those people who get the farthest.
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2013-03-09 17:00
Ok Elmo, here goes on an answer to your question about why to not show up too early to gigs:
If they're still setting up chairs & stands, you're just in the way.
If you're the first one on stage or in the room, you're too early.
If a few players are there talking & relaxing, your early warmup is annoying.
If you're there alone with the contractor & conductor & insist on a long warmup, you may play yourself into trouble.
If you're not playing Lead, don't warm up on Lead part solos or Concertos (very uncool!)
Finally, on Broadway, the earliest you can enter the pit is an hour & a half before the show (that is 6:30 for an 8:00 downbeat).
The early bird here does not get the worm!
Call my cell or email me for a more direct response.
Don't be late! Or it's "where's Elmo?"
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: mlz
Date: 2013-03-11 03:34
Military bands:
Our "local" one in this area(West Point) seems not to be giving concerts with the concert band like they used to,even before sequestration hit. Those were great to see when they had them.
And just heard a reallly nice clarinetist up in a really rural orchestra that used to be a community orch so yeah for clarinets, it is hugely competitive everywhere like never before. What I find every orch needs always is good string players , we shoulda learned those if we wanted an orch spot.
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