 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: lucas inc.
Date: 2013-03-08 02:26
does anyone know of a place or website, something that still makes good albert system clarinets. honestly if they are cheap i would want to buy one. i've never played one but i want to learn. and just be able to say i have one honestly
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-03-08 07:23
There are new Albert system clarinets coming out of India, but I can't comment on their quality. Based on some instruments I've come across originating from there I wouldn't waste money on one. There are good Alberts on EBay every day, also on other auction/for sale networks. Alternatively you could try someone like:
http://www.clarinetperfection.com
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-03-08 08:45
There are plenty of German system makers offering basic German models which aren't far off (as they're further developments of) Albert/simple systems through to full Oehler systems, although they are more expensive in comparison to equivalent Boehm system clarinets.
http://www.cs.ru.nl/~bolke/DuitseKlar/oehlerlistOld.html
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2013-03-08 14:34)
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2013-03-08 08:46
The instruments being made in India are primarily for the Military bands and I wouldn't bother with them frankly. Check Ebay for Hawkes and Sons instruments preferably the "Sonorous" Class which were their top line simple system instruments.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-03-08 09:43
The biggest problem with Boosey&Co. and Hawkes&Sons clarinets is they're most likely to be high pitch, so not compatible with low pitch (440Hz) instruments no matter what you do to them short of extensive surgery to splice in four or five new sections to lenthen each of the joints plus work on toneholes to tune them (and lenthening the keywork as well). I think it's best looking for a low pitch one as at least you'll get more chance to play it in amongst a group made up of all modern low pitch instruments.
If you're going for a high pitch one as a curiosity (or low pitch), make sure you get one with a 'patent C#' which has the doubled RH F/C key pad cups on the lower joint as that makes slurring from low E-F# and upper B-C# very easy. Also another good thing to have are top joint rings for LH 1 and 2 as the F# can be played without having to use the side F/C key - and even better still is one fitted with a side Bb or Barret action (rings for LH 2 and 3 with a single side key for Eb/Bb and F/C). I know of an ebonite Barret action simple system B&H which is low pitch, but not sure if the owner still has it. Then there are Clinton systems whichare also available in both high and low pitch.
But if you want the ultimate in Albert systems, there are Selmer Paris 'Improved Albert' system clarinets in both wood and metal - but they also built some at high pitch. I saw a metal one recently (branded as 'Sterling' in a diamond logo) and while it was very well built and complete, it was high pitch so no good for me. Although in terms of being the ultimate Albert system, a full Oehler system is just that.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2013-03-08 09:48)
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Author: maxcoletti
Date: 2013-03-08 12:50
The german company Hammerschmidt also makes Albert system clarinets
http://www.hammerschmidt-klingson.com/?page_id=21
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2013-03-08 12:52
I have an Orsi simple system (Albert) clarinet listed in the classifieds here.
B.
Post Edited (2013-03-08 12:56)
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2013-03-08 20:04
Dick van Leijenhorst has a list of makers of german system clarinets at:
http://www.cs.ru.nl/~bolke/DuitseKlar/oehlerlistOld.html
Many makers sell a range of horns with fewer of more keys from simple four ring close to Alberts to full Oehler or six ring systems. Take a look at ebay.de - some of the sellers there will ship to the USA. If you just want to try without investing a lot of money, Conn Alberts and improved Alberts from 1910-1925 or so are pretty reliable and turn up on ebay regularly at quite low prices. You can tell pitch from the serial number suffix - either L or P. Don't buy anything if you can't determine that it is low pitch.
As Chris P says about the best you can do is the Selmer Improved (6 rings) - more expensive if you find the 'three bottom keys on the right' - but Selmers of that vintage aren't especially cheap. He's also correct about the Barret action. Stay away from horns that only have two rings and/or no rollers on the pinkie keys - these will present a number of difficult fingering challenges especially for the left hand. A lot of these of french and italian make show up on ebay. And don't pay a premium for a Buffet.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-03-08 20:28
There are loads of Chinese basic German systems listed on eBay.de in plastic and various woods, but they're most likely more miss than hit in terms of build quality, reliability and tuning.
German systems have between 16 to 22 keys and four to six rings. Oehler systems (which are full pro spec) have five rings and between 24 to 28 keys - the RH2 fingerhole and ring has been replaced by two small side keys operated by a single fingerplate. Just like conservatoire system oboes, you pay out more for more keywork.
Another thing to be cautious with some German instruments is they can be pitched as high as 445Hz, so a longer barrel can do so much but not everything to bring the pitch down evenly over the range. German barrels are usually around 54-56mm, but you can get 58-60mm ones.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2013-03-09 13:40
There are also some german-made clarinets on ebay.de from such makers as Hammerschmidt or Keilwerth. You're right about pitch though but some of them are at 442Hz. I forgot to mention that Amati german systems are fairly available in the USA with 4 rings and up.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2013-03-09 17:28
I own German system four to six ring clarinets in Bb and C and an Oehler Bb clarinet. All of them- better student grade or vintage instruments- I found at reasonable cost on the German auction site (look for “Klarinette”).
Over here, for a new, rather simple Yamaha four ring German system (YCL 457-18), in Grenadilla and silver plated, you pay from 998 Euros; better China imports by reputable German importers are from about 700 Euros, also in Grenadilla with silver plated keys. Czech Amatis are from 589 Euros. To my knowledge they all are in 442 Hz, some of them come with a second barrel.
I don’t know the difference of a four- or five ring German system compared with Albert or Simple systems. Can anybody explain this, especially the advantages of “three bottom keys” or the wraparound speaker key?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-03-09 22:40
The top joint rings (for LH fingers 1 and 2) fitted on some Albert/simple systems offer better venting on the lower joint F# (left thumb only) without the need to use the side F key to raise the pitch which you would have to do on clarinets with no top joint rings. The most basic Albert/simple systems only have two rings on the lower joint for RH fingers 2 and 3.
The wraparound speaker key has the placement of the speaker tube on the top side of the bore, so reducing condensation blocking it (but it can still happen).
On the top model Selmer 'Improved Albert Systems' they have the three largest pad cups on the lower joint all on the one side instead of staggared as you'd have with simple/Albert and German/Oehler systems - there's no real advantage but it puts the toneholes in similar positions as they'd be on Boehm systems
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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