 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: michael13162
Date: 2013-02-24 04:06
Recently I took in my pair of CSG's to the local tech and he made a remark about the humistats I had in the case. Keep in mind that this is a very popular and reputable tech. He said Humistats are one of the worse things you could do to a wooden clarinet. There was also something about how it provides too quick a moisture change and how just plain water is bad because it just seeps right in and right back out. He also told me that a much better idea would be to use orange peels instead. I have heard about this orange peel method before from many sources but I have always wondered if the citrus acid from the peels would be bad for the plating on the keys.
So what does this forum have to say about in case humidifiers and orange peels? I don't want to be damaging my clarinet through ignorance.
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Author: JHowell
Date: 2013-02-24 04:31
If you're humidifying, water is the ONLY thing that does any good. There are chemicals like propylene glycol that stabilize humidity at a certain point, but they absorb and release water. Orange peels just release water as it evaporates.
Now, I'm not sure what you mean by humistats. One of the worst cracks I ever saw was in a grad student's A clarinet. I asked if he had a humidifier in his case. He said yes, and showed me some of those green rubber snakes that string players use. I asked where he had been putting them. Inside the joints, he said. Facepalm . . .
I think orange peels are fine. Don't worry about citric acid, woodwind players have been doing this for ages. I wouldn't put them ON the keys, but that's just because they'll make the keys sticky.
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Author: michael13162
Date: 2013-02-24 04:36
Here's a link to the humistat website. They are the small tube like things.
http://www.humistat.com
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2013-02-24 04:41
To contrast with the advice Al got from his tech, mine thinks that we should keep our wooden clarinets at 60% RH in their cases. I've tried to get that level of saturation and found it impossible --unless I dampen the entire lining of the case, and even then things dry out in a few hours.
The most effective way I've found to keep the air in my case damp (45-50% RH) is to put two hunks of dish sponge in open-top plastic bags.
Bob Phillips
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2013-02-24 06:39
Funny... I've been keeping Humistats in my case for 2 years, and I recently added the snake-like Dampit (not inside the clarinet, of course).
And, my clarinet managed to crack in two places a couple of weeks ago, in addition to all the cracking business I've been through in the last year.
I'm beginning to think that humidifiers have nothing to do with anything...
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: john4256
Date: 2013-02-24 08:38
I have had a pair of B and H 10:10's for 60 years and not a humidifier in sight! Result: no cracks and still in perfect condition, even though, at one stage, they were left in their case for 25 years without playing!!
I wouldn't bother with the humidifiers
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-02-24 16:18
As far as I understand the problem, cracking results from *sudden changes in temperature* of the wood, as when you suddenly begin blowing warm air into a cold clarinet, resulting in rapid expansion of the inside while the outside remains cold and resists. A crack is more likely to happen along a line where the grain is weak to begin with.
Any material is more prone to breakage when it's in its most brittle state. I would think dryness leaves wood more brittle (but would have to defer to more expert opinion - certainly a dry, dead twig snaps more easily than a moist, live one). So, keeping wood from becoming too dried out might reduce the likelihood of developing a crack. This might be especially true of keeping the *outside* of the instrument body from drying out, since that's where the stress would occur from a suddenly expanding inner bore. By that reasoning, if it's correct to any extent at all, humidifying the clarinet, especially from the outside (and maybe not so much by oiling from the inside), should reduce the tendency to crack (although if there's a genuine weak spot it probably can't prevent it).
My own experience is that I've only had one clarinet that I used regularly crack - the first Buffet I bought back in the 1960s. I have never been consistent about humidifying except when tenon rings come loose. A couple of days of leaving Dampits in the case generally tightens the rings, so I know the moisture has done *something.*
Pretty much everyone will base his or her opinion about this on individual anecdotal experience, so you'll never get a definitive answer. Maybe one day someone with money to burn will fund a controlled study.
Karl
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Author: michael13162
Date: 2013-02-24 19:07
From what bethmhil said, it seems like the humistats and dampits might actually be detrimental seeing as her clarinets cracked after she started using the dampit.
I understand the logic behind kdk's post, but basically the answer was that no one knows for sure. So yes or no answer, should I be using the humistats?
Thanks for all your replies!
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-02-24 19:52
Obviously, you won't get a reliable answer either way. You have to make your choice based on the information you can find. Use the search engine here - this isn't the first time this has come up for discussion.
Sorry, there's no ultimate wisdom here.
Karl
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Author: Buster
Date: 2013-02-24 20:01
michael113162,
THAT Karl used logic to come to his basic answer "that no one knows for sure" holds more weight than simply stating "that no one knows for sure", no?
I have asked several quite noted clarinet specialists and received several different answers, ranging from: "if you play the instrument everyday you don't need to use humidifiers", to varying humidifing techniques. Including dampened sponges, orange peels, Humistats, DampIts etc.....
I don't discredit any of their answers, and they all stated their logic when questioned, but I don't think that any definitive proof could ever truly exist.
Don't look for being told Yes. Or No.
Look for reason and logic behind it to make your own informed choice, whatever it may be. Might help you sleep more soundly at night. (Sorry to preach.)
For the record, I have Humistats in all of my clarinet cases and have not had any cracks, but I can't say that I haven't had any cracks because of that fact. Or indeed in spite of it!
In the excessively dry months here in Ohio, I will also put orange peels in as well; loosening rings tending to be my indicator for this action.
-Jason
Post Edited (2013-02-24 20:04)
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2013-02-24 20:51
I keep a pill bottle in each case. Inside the bottle is a damp sponge and I have drilled holes around the top rim to allow vapor to escape. One of my instruments had several small cracks when I got it, but the price made it worth trying. It also had loose tenon rings. After a couple of weeks with the pill bottle, the rings were tight and the cracks were closed completely and needed no further attention.
I have a pre-war Kohlert that has been through just about anything you can put a clarinet through (indoor, outdoor, extremely hot parades, extremely cold football games, rain, dry, etc.) and never had any problem. I suspect that whether or not you need to humidify the case depends on the particular piece of wood used to make your instrument. On the other hand, I have a pill bottle humidifier in all my cases. I believe that a crack can be the result of excessive dryness, but no humidifier is going to get the humidity in the bore to what it is while I'm playing. My feeling is that, so long as you don't get mold or something, too high humidity is better than too low. Good quality, plant based bore oil will help regulate how rapidly the wood gains or loses water.
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Author: clarinetfixer
Date: 2013-02-25 00:56
I recommend Mike Lomax's HumidiPro cases!!!! They really are amazing. My clarinets have become much more stable since using the cases. I love them so much, I have a single, traditional double and his compact double. While other member's of my section deal with cracking while on tour, I haven't had any trouble.
His new case with a warmer is just another great step in helping to prevent and possibly eliminate cracking.
I believe Ricardo Morales will be getting the first production model of the Humidipro Plus...I can't wait to get one too!
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Author: michael13162
Date: 2013-02-25 04:33
Dang, those Humidipro cases are quite the investment. Thanks for all the great replies everyone. It's really given me insight on this topic. I think I'll just leave the humistats in there for now seeing as I've found no objections.
And Mr. Blumberg, good thing my CSG's don't have bell rings :D
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2013-02-27 13:14
michael113162,
Re Beth's problem, look up "post hoc ergo propter hoc" reasoning.
I've used orange peels occasionally over the years when I've had a bell ring go loose from apparent dryness. They are the only thing that has ever worked for me (and I've tried a variety of ways to humidify the instrument). I have always suspected that the oil in the orange peel is an evaporating oil (the lemon oil you can buy at health food stores is) and that, perhaps, some of it was absorbed by the wood. I put a few small peels in a sealed plastic bag, poked a few holes in the bag, and put the bag inside the bell. The rings tightened up overnight. My bell rings never turned black (but I did get some discoloration of the bore of my bell in one case). But then I don't remember using them with anything but nickel plated rings.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Maruja
Date: 2013-02-27 13:45
Am I being stupid or can someone tell me why we are always told to swab out the damp and yet people are putting humidifiers into their case?
My first clarinet teacher told me he never swabbed out as he wanted to conserve the humidity...
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2013-02-27 19:02
And, what you are swabbing out of your clarinet is a wetness that bears traces of whatever was in your mouth/on your breath: sugars, starches, bacteria, tar, i.e.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2013-02-27 19:58
So what's going to happen when you excessively humidify the case, then pull the clarinet out to play in an extremely dry environment?
If it's a blackwood instrument, probably not much, but why shock the instrument by suddenly subjecting it to an extremely different ambient humidity?
As with temperature, it's not the actual humidity that matters, it's the sudden change.
Any woodworker will tell you how central heating can crack antique furniture that has never cracked, but that, when subjected to the sudden temperature changes that come with a blower and thermostat on a forced air furnace, suddenly cracks and warps. Well, this also holds true with wood that is suddenly put in an extremely different humidity.
Wood clarinets are made of wood. The wood in a wood clarinet acts like wood acts. There's nothing special about it except that it's denser than most wood used for furniture. Why do things to it that one wouldn't do to an antique table?
B.
(Who doesn't mess with humidifiers, and just lets his horns reach ambient temperature before playing them, and has never had a crack.)
Post Edited (2013-02-27 20:03)
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Author: DougR
Date: 2013-02-27 22:14
I throw up my hands in confusion. What is truth? I don't know anymore. I've been humidifying my cases with humistats, and here's a guy (Maruja's teacher) who doesn't even swab the horns and apparently (extrapolating from the post) doesn't have cracking issues. I might as well carry a magic bean around in my pocket--I DARE you to prove it doesn't keep my horn from cracking!
I'll keep using the humistats, mindful of what a local luthier told me, which is that (at least for guitars) it's not the low humidity that causes cracks, but extreme changes in humidity (like shoving a wet dampit into a dry guitar body, or a dry wooden clarinet joint) that causes cracks.
But I like the simplicity of Mr. Blumberg's principle: "Clarinets either crack.....or they don't."
There, now I can relax.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-02-27 23:07
DougR wrote:
> I might as well carry a magic bean around in
> my pocket--I DARE you to prove it doesn't keep my horn from
> cracking!
>
Unless it does crack.
> But I like the simplicity of Mr. Blumberg's principle:
> "Clarinets either crack.....or they don't."
>
And if they do, they can nearly always be fixed. Cracks aren't the worst thing that can happen to a clarinet.
Karl
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2013-02-28 11:17
Except in a performance, then they pretty much are the worst thing that can happen
I've never had a cracked Clarinet in my 38 years of playing, but I've had students who's Clarinet cracked. District Band rehearsals are notorious for that happening.
Actually, a student back in 1994 cracked a student Clarinet of mine right above the register key.
She had borrowed one that I was going to sell, as her Clarinet the week before had cracked - right in the same spot.
Any guesses how that "coincidence" happened?
Ouch
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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