 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bill
Date: 2013-02-04 19:08
One thread, two topics: I just acquired Buffet 19764 (1935) because I loved Buffet 21634 (1836) so much. Tone-wise, they have nothing in common! The 19xxx is big-sounding and rich and dark (all invalid terms, I realize), and 21xxx super-focused, edgy, and bright. It's a wide-wide world! But apparently the Buffet factory in the mid-1930s was even wider. (Conversely, I find Selmers of that era rather depressingly even horn to horn.)
Second topic: I need to adjust a key on the 19xxx and I'm afraid I'll break it. The G#/D# pinkie key was set with almost no clearance at all. I thought I would get the other same-era Buffets, study the key movement/play, and try to adjust the 19xxx. But as I say I'd rather have a less-than-optimal key than a broken one. Can anyone provide suggestions for bending these brittle old keys?
Thanks.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-02-04 21:14
Bill, never bend a key unless you are psychologically and logistically prepared for the finite possibility of breaking it. Have a "Plan B" ready.
That said, get a pair of sturdy parallel-jawed pliers (smooth-jawed, of course, not serrated-jaw), remove the key you plan to bend, hold the stem of the touchpiece just above the hinge tube using one set of pliers, then grab the end of the touchpiece with the other set of pliers. Get your arms nice and stabilized (like resting on a tabletop, for example), then bend the two sets of pliers against each other as slowly as possible --- use The Force, but barely move the metal. Frequently stop and check your key to make sure you don't go past your destination angle. If the keys were made from that crappy pewter-like zinc alloy called "Mazak' or similar, then forget it, you are hosed. If you try to bend that stuff at all, it WILL break. But if they're made of any sort of half-decent nickel alloy (even cast, though forged is preferable), you should be fine.
By the way, what makes you assume they're 'brittle old' keys? Metal does not necessarily become brittle with age, and I've found that the nickel-silver alloys used in old clarinets are mostly of higher quality and LESS brittle than on more modern instruments.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2013-02-05 05:05
When you say "almost no clearance" I assume you mean it is not venting enoug hwhen open, yes?
First make sure there isn't a too-thick bumper that causes the problem.
If that is not the problem and the key doesn't open enough, it is most likely that it was bent at some point and not made this way. There are several possibilities.
The Ab/Eb touchpiece usually has a little stop under it. Although it's much more likely that this stop bends down and causes the key to open too much, the opposite is also possible. Check if this is the reason.
If not, probably best to bend the key (back to) open the correct amount. I would definitely prefer to do that while the key is on the instrument(!) unless it is not possible.
Make sure there is no crack at the solder joint of the hinge and key arms. This doesn't happen often, but can be a reason for it bending out of alignment and might break if you bend it back.
For this key I would usually start with my fingers by bending the key cup side of the key up (while it is on the instrument). Notice that the touchpiece is leaning against the stop, so it all depends on the weakest part of the key, that is where it would bend. It is usually better than forcing it to bend in a different place. Try to hold the key cup in such a way to not distort its alignment over the tone hole. You can try to support the touchpiece side of the key if you suspect it will bend the stop too much (unlikely but possible).
Next step would probably be using very strong pliers with big and flat jaws on the touchpiece only, having the key cup and pad support against it from the other side. It should not damage the pad.
Only in more difficult cases where the key won't bend on the instrument I would remove it. Then, make sure to bend to the rod screw inside the key!
Since it's a Buffet it's very unlikely that the keys are "pot metal" (aka mazak, etc.).
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-02-05 13:06
>> First make sure there isn't a too-thick bumper that causes the problem.
>>
Yes! I've found this is an extremely common problem. You may be able to avoid bending the key at all. I just took a look back at the record of what I did on my own 1937 Buffet in Bb, and sure enough, that key didn't open enough. The cork was about 1/16" thick. It was in crummy condition anyway, so I replaced it and sanded down the replacement cork to nearly paper-thin. Problem solved.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2013-02-18 03:13
Thanks Claribass and Lelia. The cork thickness *was* the problem. Fixed!!!
Thank you!!!!!
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: BodhiMcB
Date: 2023-05-11 09:51
A little late perhaps, but I've got to say, we might have clarinet buddies :D
I also have a 1937 Bb buffet, perhaps they came off the line together.
my serial number is 21572, you?
Cheers!
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