 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: affects
Date: 2012-12-09 22:40
Hello,
I just acquired a Old Penzel Mueller-Artist Model Clarinet. Appears it was made in France. Serial #17115.
I have looked at several of these on the web and noticed that mine has a bird or an eagle above the scripted word artist. I have not seen this on any other.
Could someone tell me about this, such as age, the bird and so on.
I have posted an image here:
http://affects.com/clarinet8.jpg
I would really appreciate it.
Thanks in advance.
Chris
Chris Cunningham
Affects web design
www.affects.com
714-374-1993
chris@affects.com
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2012-12-10 00:49
Click on "Search", type in Penzel Mueller Artist, should be quite a few posts.
My recollection is that all PM wood (and hard-rubber?)clarinets are U.S. made, of good quality. I also have a few metal PM 'Artist' model clarinets, of intermediate quality.
Don't mistake 'france' on the mouthpiece or ligature for the country of clarinet manufacture.
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2012-12-10 13:42
affects wrote:
> I just acquired a Old Penzel Mueller-Artist Model Clarinet.
> Appears it was made in France. Serial #17115.
>
> I have looked at several of these on the web and noticed that
> mine has a bird or an eagle above the scripted word artist. I
> have not seen this on any other.
>
You have one of the earlier P-M Artist clarinets, probably made in the early 1930's in Long Island City, NY (all P-M clarinets were made in NY). The early "Artist" models with serial number comprised entirely of numbers were the top of the line P-M clarinet when they were produced. P-M used the eagle logo on all of their earlier clarinets and didn't drop it until after WW2. Penzel Mueller continued making the "Artist" model right up until the company failed in the mid 1950's but the later ones had serial numbers beginning with the letter "L" and were not nearly as good as the earlier ones having become an intermediate model by that point.
I own several P-M clarinets and in my opinion the pre-war ones are comparable in quality to most of the clarients coming out of europe at the time and were probably the best American-made clarinets. Sadly with the exception of the Clari-Met (an extremely rare a very high quality metal clarinet) most P-M clarinets don't command much in the way of resale value. The brand is not very well known and most of the people that do know it assosciate the brand with their rather poor quality later clarinets rather than their very good earlier ones.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-12-10 15:07
One of the best-playing clarinets I've restored was an early P-M Artist. The quality came as something of a surprise and wasn't evident until the instrument was stripped and cleaned. When it was finished I found it a delight to play, and it would have upstaged some much more prestigious instruments. The tuning was very good.
Tony F.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2012-12-10 15:27
Tony F wrote:
> One of the best-playing clarinets I've restored was an early
> P-M Artist. The quality came as something of a surprise and
> wasn't evident until the instrument was stripped and cleaned.
> When it was finished I found it a delight to play, and it would
> have upstaged some much more prestigious instruments. The
> tuning was very good.
>
I have an early P-M Artist that I think plays just as well as my K-series Selmer from the same time period. That just makes it all the more depressing that none of the post-war P-M clarinets I have tried have been able to play much better than an intermediate level French clarinet of the same time period. Even my "Super Brilliante" clarinet that P-M's sales literature claimed was the best clarinet the company had ever made is fairly pedestrian and is nowhere near the level of my 50's Selmer clarinets.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-12-10 15:53
I have a full-Boehm Penzel-Mueller "Artist" clarinet, indeed made in Long Island, NY, and an excellent instrument.
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Author: affects
Date: 2012-12-12 00:10
Thank you very much, you have been a big help.
Chris
Chris Cunningham
Affects web design
www.affects.com
714-374-1993
chris@affects.com
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Author: wvalhof1
Date: 2013-02-08 14:39
I have a Penzel and Mueller Artist model B flat clarinet. I purchased it in the 1960's from the first chair of the L.A. Philharmonic. He said that it had been his performance clarinet prior to buying a new one. I played it for several years and it had great sound. Now I am getting curious about it's age after reading the posts in this forum. It has no serial number that I can find. The logo of the eagle is there and it says that it was made in New York. It is made of a beautiful hard wood. I always thought it was ebony, but I amnot sure of that. What I am wondering is, does the lack of a serial number mean that it was made before the company started putting serial numbers on it's horns, or does it mean that it was a model made late in the company's history? It came with the original case, which was black leather with a red velvet interior. The case looks like it could have come from the 1930's. Also, what kind of wood are these clarinets usually made out of?
Maybe I am missing the seriall number. Where are they usually located? It isn't with any of the logo's which are on each section of the horn.
Post Edited (2013-02-08 14:50)
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2013-02-08 15:40
wvalhof1 wrote:
What I am wondering is, does the lack of a
> serial number mean that it was made before the company started
> putting serial numbers on it's horns, or does it mean that it
> was a model made late in the company's history? It came with
> the original case, which was black leather with a red velvet
> interior. The case looks like it could have come from the
> 1930's. Also, what kind of wood are these clarinets usually
> made out of?
>
> Maybe I am missing the seriall number. Where are they usually
> located? It isn't with any of the logo's which are on each
> section of the horn.
Penzel-Mueller always included serial numbers on their clarinets as far as I know. It should be noted that they stamped the serial number in a different place than most other manufacturers however. Most manufacturers stamped the serial numbers at the end of the joints just above the tenon but Penzel-Mueller stamped the serial number on the side of the joints about midway down the length. Look just below the trill keys on the upper joint and you should find the serial number.
If you have the eagle above the P-M logo you probably have one of the earlier clarinet. The early Artist model clarinet with serial number that consist of only numbers were P-M's top of the line model and are usually very good clarinets. The later Artist model clarinets with serial numbers starting with "M" were intermediate level clarinets and are typically not nearly as good as the earlier ones.
As with the vast majority of clarinets these were made out of African Blackwood which also commonly called Grenadilla or M'Pingo.
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-08-10 16:47
Just to add a late note to this thread, I recently acquired a Penzel Mueller Soloist, serial number 4004B, which dates it to pre WWII. It is a fantastic playing horn, in my mind comparable to, if not better than, my Selmer Centered Tone.
I noticed in a 1955 catalog/brochure, there is a Soloist shown way down the list, as is the Artist, which, as noted earlier in this thread, had been the "pro", or top of the line, model before the war.
While my later PM Brilliante plays nicely, there is no comparison between it and the Soloist. I do not believe the 1950's editions were nearly the equal of the earlier models.
Gary K
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Author: Rezzie
Date: 2013-08-10 19:30
...and since this thread is back up...
Just yesterday, I picked up a PM Super Brilliante Bb (which was PM's top of the line clarinet in their latter days, I understand) to try out on consignment, and I am gobsmacked at how wonderful an instrument this is. The tech did an overhaul about 10 years ago for someone who never bought the horn, and it had been sitting there ever since waiting for me to find it. Found it an a Craiglist ad.
Even after sitting untouched this long, it plays like a dream. Stunningly good altissimo, easy to shade/cover the tone, lovely rich chalumeau, and what seems to be very good tuning to my ear, though I haven't sat down and charted it out yet. Clearly a much darker sound than my R-13.
This one is SM8946B - I'm keeping it. It's not pretty, but it's a player.
Post Edited (2013-08-10 19:38)
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-08-10 23:59
Maybe we should start a Penzel Mueller fan club. Then our various tidbits or information could be pooled and we would learn a little more about these vastly underrated clarinets!
Think I will acquire a domain name and put something up...
Gary K
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2013-08-11 06:51
gkern wrote:
> Maybe we should start a Penzel Mueller fan club.
I'm in. I think I own an example of just about every clarinet model they made.
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Author: oseely
Date: 2013-09-30 01:06
My Artist model serial number looks like 74911 and it was made before 1950 (I was 11 years old) when my dad bought it from a local jazz clarinetist for $95. In trying to give myself an excuse to buy a new Buffet or Selmer, I calculated a standard deviation on the notes of a chromatic scale from low E to C above the staff, not trying to cheat in any way, just playing each note with my normal embouchure and looking at the Hz deviation of each note on my Korg tuner. The comparison was with my Selmer 10 A clarinet, made around 1965. The Penzel-Mueller came out with a slightly smaller SD than the Selmer. So the long and the short of it is that I still don't have a decent excuse to buy a new instrument.
Oliver Seely
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-09-30 02:46
Attachment: emblem on top joint.jpg (35k)
I recently acquired another PM, this one I call a "pre-Artist". The serial number is 8347, and unlike later models this is located horizontally at the end of the keyed joints. I call it "pre-Artist" as it has the Eagle emblem above the Penzel Muller in the oval - note the spelling of Muller, and pre-dated the naming of models.
It has fantastic wood and plays beautifully.
And check out the PM site at http://penzelmuellerfanclub.com; several folks have sent pictures of their collections, and they are on the site.
Gary K
Post Edited (2013-09-30 03:08)
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