 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2012-12-26 14:39
I was asked to sit in for the last set of a well known Bay Area trad jazz band. Of course I was thrilled at the invitation. On stage the music was either no music, or banjo charts, which I lovingly refer to as banjo bingo. I couldn't do obscure songs they played, but songs I knew, I simply played from memory. This was very embarrassing to me. Do a lot of bands do this? I like "real notes."
Confused in California
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2012-12-26 15:01
Trad jazz bands almost never use anything more than a lead sheet, if that.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: Pastor Rob
Date: 2012-12-26 15:54
It's the same with NC church choirs and orchestras.
Pastor Rob Oetman
Leblanc LL (today)
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Author: Wes
Date: 2012-12-26 21:49
If you can get "Band in a Box", you can practice improvising along with the concert key chords for a tune at a speed comfortable with you. For example, if the concert chord is F, you would fake along on a G chord with your Bb clarinet. It is not so hard! Good luck!
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2012-12-27 02:37
I am comfortable with improvising on the standard trad jazz tunes, in fact, that is my favorite thing to do. But what threw me was the obscure tunes from the 20's. I was not the least familiar with the melodies of those. They were Bix Beiderbeck tunes and although I am certainly familiar with Bix's songs, not the ones they were tossing out!
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-12-27 02:48
Might they have been having a game at your expense?
Tony F.
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-12-27 03:39
Do a lot of combos use only lead sheets? Absolutely!
I wouldn't immediately jump to conclusions that they may have been have a bit of sadistic fun at your expense; most jazz musicians are actually quite open and welcoming at having others sit-in in the right setting.
In fact, the best cats I know are the most willing to let others share the stage. Many of them really cut their teeth playing with "elders" and want to keep that tradition going as well. (Or "pay it forward" to use a very tired modern phrase.)
All that being said, I have seen a combo put a young overly-egotistical "hotshot" in his place. Perhaps he was prepared to play his butt off on Rhythm changes and the leader decided to call up Cherokee; up a whole step. At quarter=320 or something ridiculous. (Now it wasn't really malicious, but perhaps meant to be instructive. Not to imply this is what you experienced.)
And a few "unpublished" auditions have taken place under a similar setting to what you experienced.....
-Jason
Post Edited (2012-12-27 04:35)
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Author: alto gether
Date: 2012-12-27 07:31
What exactly were the banjo charts? I sort of get along improvising low parts to songs I haven't heard given nothing but chord names for C instrument (on Eb contra alto), but I've seen uke charts that are mostly chord diagrams that are completely useless to anybody except a uke player in that tuning. And guitar sheets that are mostly guitar tab, but at least with chord names above the tab.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-12-27 13:32
I'm a little lost in this conversation, but I'm curious about it. My understanding of banjo or guitar charts is a staff, maybe with nothing much but slash notation and some kind of tab diagrams with or without standard chord symbols. My understanding of a lead sheet (which I've played from occasionally), is a treble staff with the tune written out and chord symbols above it (which is what you get in a C "fake book").
If I'm misunderstanding these two terms, please help. If I have them right, the lead sheet is standard and easy to improvise from. Unless the banjo/guitar charts have the melody written out on the staff, you'd have to know the melody already to do anything but improvise chords and background riffs.
Sorry if this is a little naive - I've done a little of this kind of playing but not much and not lately.
Karl
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2012-12-27 14:08
Dyed in the wool trad players know most all the tunes by heart. They also know almost all the chord sequences by heart too. So in performance nothing written is used except sometimes chord sequences. For some reason banjo players (curses be upon them anyway...) sometimes need these. These are just the chord names (concert) written out in a sequence, kinda like a lead sheet without the staff and notes. Not much help if you're not used to improvising and tradjazz anyway. It gets easier as you learn. Many of the tunes are simple or more elaborate twelve bar blues themes. Others have standard chords - learn the bridge from "I got rhythm" it's amazing how often that is used. And listen to a variety of performers old and not quite so old. The themes will start to become more familiar, and it's good ear training anyway. But to jump in the deepend would be hard for anyone to do.
Typically a lead sheet would be used when a band is learning a new piece; but not necessarily by all players. Quite a few don't read music well if at all, relying on ear.
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Author: John Morton
Date: 2012-12-28 15:28
Rhythm players only need chord names. If the tune is unfamiliar it's much easier to read the bold letters of a "bingo chart" than the tiny chords that accompany music notation.
The lead sheet, on the other hand, encompasses all the essentials of a tune, and should include chord names positioned correctly in the bar. From a good lead sheet you can generate parts to suit every instrument, including chord charts. In a band, if I have never heard the tune, I would rather have the chord chart than have to sight read a melody line (assuming I'm not responsible for playing the head). Remember that the chords are what you need for improv solos, so why not have them writ large with a black Sharpie? Especially if you're reading off someone else's stand.
It sounds like you are not accustomed to playing from chord names. I think you'll find it fun to try, it's very exciting. Start with long tones in the chord when you're in the background, and arpeggiated chords w/ variations when it's your solo.
John
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2012-12-28 20:05
When this thread came up, I thought that Carol had encountered banjo parts written in tablature form, showing where to place fingers on the fretboard and which string to pluck.
I have a banjo playing friend who has a translator that "reads" traditional notation from computer scans and prints tablature for him to use while playing.
Bob Phillips
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Author: ned
Date: 2012-12-29 01:42
Carol Dutcher wrote: ‘’ I couldn't do obscure songs they played, but songs I knew, I simply played from memory. This was very embarrassing to me. Do a lot of bands do this? I like "real notes."
If you were guesting on the bandstand, the unwritten rule is that the bandleader should ask you ‘’what do you want to play?” If Bix’s ‘IN A MIST’ (say) is not your bag, that would be the time to say as much.
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Merlin Williams wrote: ‘’ Trad jazz bands almost never use anything more than a lead sheet, if that.
We rely on the occasional look at the chord player’s book – that will be just chord changes, not written notes (ie) Bb / / Bb7 and etc……......
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Wes wrote: ‘’ If you can get "Band in a Box", you can practice improvising along with the concert key chords for a tune at a speed comfortable with you.
Good advice here, and DO programme in full chord sequences to complete tunes. It’s a better way to learn improvisation, as opposed to playing along with the record.
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Buster wrote: ‘’ I wouldn't immediately jump to conclusions that they may have been have a bit of sadistic fun at your expense; most jazz musicians are actually quite open and welcoming at having others sit-in in the right setting.
Perhaps not, but the repertoire chosen on this occasion would have seemed odd, given Carol’s familiarity with the ‘trad’ book. You’ll get the occasional ‘master’ who expects you to know whatever is called, but generally though, Buster is correct.
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Karl wrote: ‘’ Unless the banjo/guitar charts have the melody written out on the staff, you'd have to know the melody already to do anything but improvise chords and background riffs.
A good many tunes can be played fairly coherently at the first attempt - if you can hum TIGER RAG - you can probably play it to an acceptable degree - given you have an appropriate level of technical proficiency. Some Tin Pan Alley numbers (and there are many excellent ones) can be a little difficult, but that’s where the chord book comes in handy. Oh- and don’t forget to let the band leader know you’d prefer to take your solo last! This will give you time to 'feel' the changes.
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Chris Moffatt wrote: ‘’ Dyed in the wool trad players know most all the tunes by heart. They also know almost all the chord sequences by heart too. So in performance nothing written is used except sometimes chord sequences. For some reason banjo players (curses be upon them anyway...) sometimes need these. These are just the chord names (concert) written out in a sequence
The first sentence is correct pretty much – I don’t know about the second – certainly not in my experience I’d have to say. I am an anticipator of changes given familiarity with the tune being played – and a quick peek at the chord changes will help me. The chord changes (as writ) are meaningful to me in private practice, but when push comes to shove on the bandstand, I rely on muscle memory and a fairly reasonable ear.
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John Morton wrote: ‘’ It sounds like you are not accustomed to playing from chord names. I think you'll find it fun to try, it's very exciting. Start with long tones in the chord when you're in the background, and arpeggiated chords w/ variations when it's your solo.
This is good advice too – and I recall Carol - that you posted something along these lines a few years ago. I believe that you then owned a programmable keyboard, as do I. It’s a better way to learn improvisation (see Wes response) that playing along with a record
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