 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: michael13162
Date: 2012-12-09 19:52
I've been offered a matching set of Yamaha CSG-1's for 2800. They are the original CSG's and not their latest model. I trust the seller completely and from what time I've spent with the horns, they play amazingly. The Bb is silver plated and the A has the Hamilton (gold) playing. There is nothing mechanically wrong with them either. Perfect playing condition. ^_^
I'm looking for a clarinet that I plan on playing for many years (I'm a high school student) and I was wondering what you guys think.
Thank you all so much!
Post Edited (2012-12-10 05:16)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-12-09 20:42
At $2800 (what you pay for one these days), I was wondering why you don't already have them????!!!???
Although there are some things to keep in mind. To make mine play well with others, I wound up with the shortest barrel size (53.8mm I believe). Also the "A" is rather low pitched on the low E and F so you may look into having some really good tech help tweek these notes down the road (this is why the CSG II features the thumb operated vent....especially good thing to have on the "A")
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: michael13162
Date: 2012-12-09 20:58
I've been crawling this board and I haven't heard much bad being spoken of these clarinets. I have a one week trial before I fully commit to buying them and I will be taking them during Christmas break.
I've had the chance to try 2 of the 2nd model with the low correction key and they seem a bit tacky and not practical. Although that's just my opinion.
I'm wondering how long the Hamilton playing will last. Is it durable because I am like death to silver :-). Something about hand acidity.
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Author: jparrette
Date: 2012-12-10 03:32
About the silver issue - wash your hands like crazy before you play - every time. If you take a break, wash them again. When you're done playing, wipe down the surfaces you touch with a microfiber cloth. I have the same issue, and your clarinets will thank you.
I've never heard anything bad about the Hamilton plating. Again, see above.
I can say from a repair-tech point of view, that Yamaha's build quality is excellent.
The price sounds great. Take them on trial, and find somewhere to go play-test them next to other top brand's pro models.
Good luck!
John Parrette
CLARION MUSICAL SERVICES
john@clarionmusical.com
914-805-3388
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-12-10 05:03
I have a set of "first-gen" CSGs in Hamilton plate that I used professionally for a year or so; 3-8 hours a day depending. There was virtually no visible wear to the plating.
FWIW I destroy nickel plating with ease--- wore through the nickel and copper flash on a Buffet in a month. (I chose Hamilton CSGs to avoid this curse and I can attest that mine held up extremely well. I cannot attest that the plating holds any magical powers nor tone beautifying abilities.)
As for quality, they are extremely well constructed instruments and at that price I doubt you will lose money if you decide to re-sell them after a month.
As for serving you well for your high-school years, they would more than fit the bill.
For the record, I ultimately put them down and chose another weapon from my stash... But from time to time I will pull them out and be charmed for a day or 2. They are fine clarinets.
Do it sound good?! If you let it
-Jason
Post Edited (2012-12-10 05:05)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-10 05:35
I saw a 1st series CSGH where the player had worn through the plating on the thumb tube, completely eroding the metal away making it very sharp and irregular. The only option would be to replace the entire thumb tube. Perhaps the plating was very thin around the inside edge of the thumb tube and easily damaged which caused this to happen.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-12-10 13:44
The plating is only a few microns thick. So for me, the areas where there is more physical contact shows wear after about a year and a half.
Personally I recommend using 100% cotton flanel clothes for wiping keys (purely my preference).
If you are really playing out on the low E of the "A" clarinet (in particular) you'll begin to appreciate the cheesisness of the the CSG II thumb vent design. But there is nothing that prevents the first generation from being quite lovely.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: michael13162
Date: 2012-12-10 15:22
How does the CSG stack up against the army of R13's that's so popular? I've been told by multiple sources that the R13 is the way to go in terms of a professional clarinet. I don't want to buy this and the go to college to find out I should buy an R13 like everyone else is using . Is there a reason most people are on those Buffets? Originally before I found this deal I was considering getting a Buffet prestige.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-10 16:00
People generally buy Buffet R13s because they're either told to or so they don't stand out from the crowd.
If you like the Yamaha CSG or any other clarinet better than the R13, then get the one you like, not the one you're told to like.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-10 20:09
No clarinets play perfectly in tune for various reasons - a common example being low E and F are generally flat on the majority of clarinets (without any extra mechanism fitted) and that's just how things are. If they were in tune, the B and C a 12th higher would be too sharp.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-12-11 08:09)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-12-11 00:09
Well Chris the Wurlitzer Oehler system clarinets are tuned for the B and C and they compensate for the flatness a twelfth down with the thumb trigger. I have not tried the Yamaha version myself but as far as the Wurlitzers go, I'd say they are about as perfect as a clarinet will get.
.................Paul Aviles
P.S. As far as the dominance of the Buffet I'd say it's not what it used to be. Many sections are comprised of multiple brands these days But if you want to be Buffet centered, I'd stick with the R13. The Prestige, Vintage, Divines are even less 'standard' than many of the "other" brands.
Post Edited (2012-12-11 00:13)
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Author: gwie
Date: 2012-12-12 04:35
What a great price! This is exactly the same setup I'm playing on, a CSG Bb and a CSG-H A.
I first tried them out at the Vancouver ClarinetFest, where Justin O'Dell just happened to be my neighbor in the on-campus housing and Yamaha had a whole pile of great A clarinets. In switching to Yamaha six years ago, I gave up both my Buffet R-13 Bb and A which had been fully overhauled by the Brannens and played wonderfully. While their intonation was quite good, it was a quintet rehearsal for a concert I was doing of Brahms and Mozart that sold the CSG for me. The CSG-H A clarinet that I picked up had really superb intonation and was really easy to adjust in matching pitch with the strings, and most importantly the lighter weight made it much easier for me to make through the concert.
The majority of my private students play Buffet R-13's, but every once in awhile they will get curious and play my instrument, and discover to their shock just how good a Yamaha can be.
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Author: michael13162
Date: 2012-12-12 04:45
This is similar to how I discovered the CSG. I was at my local music store attending a Bill Jackson masterclass. I asked what his set up and lo and behold, it was the new CSG II. Turns out he actually helped design the CSG's. Afterwards, I tried out a CSG that the store had on display and was completely blown away. I did a C major arpeggio down to the low G and was amazed at how dark my tone all of a sudden was. Everything just felt and speakd so much clearer.
This lighter weight you are talking about might be an opportunity for me to cast off my neck strap :D
quie, why did you get silver plating on your Bb instead of matching with your A?
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Author: gwie
Date: 2012-12-17 00:21
It's easier to tell them apart when they're different colors.
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Author: michael13162
Date: 2012-12-22 03:52
I've decided to keep them and will be writing out the check tomorrow :D
I have bought a vial of Bore Doctor bore oil and am wondering how often I should oil it. On the instructions, it says to wet a swab with the stuff and run it through the horn a couple times. I'm assuming it's OK to do this without taking off all the pads and keywork right? I live in dry, dry Utah, so how often should I be oiling it anyways?
http://doctorsprod.com/cbuy/bore-doctor
Thanks
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-12-22 06:43
You need very little oil in the bore, just barely enough to put some colour on the wood. Just put a few drops on a swab and run it through the bore until it looks universally shiny. I oil once a year, but we're not as dry as you so look at perhaps twice a year. The appearance of the bore is your best indicator.
Tony F.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-12-22 09:10
I live in a very dry city and also occasionally (pretty often really) go play in very humid cities. I never oil my clarinets... or maybe I oiled once in the last few years. I found no real evidence that oiling that often helps (or cause any problems) except too much oil can be a bit of a problem (suddenly wick out etc.). Almost always only dry wood cracks, so it can be good to oil if it is getting dry, but it's hard to know for sure how deep the oil penetrates anyway or how dry the wood is inside.
A simple "experiment" is when washing a clarinet. After, it looks completely dry, much more dry than ny clarinet left for years without oiling, yet it is impossible for all the oil to come out. Oiling it after washing will make it look as good as it can be after a very short time, much shorter than the oil needs to penetrate. So once the wood looks dry, it is very likely just a thin layer that is dry and consider how long it takes for that to happen.
So I'd say you don't really need to iil the clarinet... unless you think you do... if it makes you sleep better... and then just put a little bit like Tony F explained. Try to avoid getting oil on the pads, keys, etc.
I've seen no evidence that oiling as much as once a year or more helps anything. Statistics that I see overall of clarinets cracking, don't seem to have anything to do with the amount of oiling.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-12-25 19:24
The reference to "different colors" reminds me of a situation I was in with my first clarinetist in college. While playing the Wagner Siegfried Idyll we had our "other clarinets" between us on one stand. Just before the clarinet solo, the first player grabbed my clarinet of the same key by mistake.........and it sounded less than wonderful.
You'll never make that mistake!!!!
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: michael13162
Date: 2012-12-26 05:10
Paul Aviles
"The reference to "different colors" reminds me of a situation I was in with my first clarinetist in college. While playing the Wagner Siegfried Idyll we had our "other clarinets" between us on one stand. Just before the clarinet solo, the first player grabbed my clarinet of the same key by mistake.........and it sounded less than wonderful."
That's really funny. I've had a similar situation happen to me as well. We were running through Mendelssohn's 4th (the Scottish one) symphony and had just started the 2nd movement. It starts out with some string stuff and a pretty long and magnificent clarinet solo in 7 bars. Now this piece was meant to be played with no stops in between movements. Lo and behold, I forget to switch to my Bb (all the other movements are in A), and was completely baffled (no pun intended) when it sounded really terrible...
Fortunately this was during a rehearsal so all I got was plenty of dirty looks and glares
Funny thing was that I didn't even realize it sounded so bad because I had the wrong clarinet until after I had sat there blankly for a moment.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-12-26 08:11
That would be Mendelssohn's 3rd Symphony, yes? The 4th is the Italian Symphony.
Tony F.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-12-28 21:21
Once more once
There was this sight reading rehearsal of Wagner (what is it about Wagner?) where I was dumbstruck a few bars into a transition of Meistersinger Overture where there is a tiny, tiny marking for "ut clarinette."
WHO KNEW?!!?
..................Paul Aviles
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