 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2012-12-03 13:02
I work with 3 students from an all boys boarding school. I have no contact with the parents.
Last week, I had a student try some 3 1/2 reeds. Student is 15 years old. I gave him two to try and it sounded like they were too hard. I just wanted to see how he would do.
This particular student has been my "challenge" student from the beginning. Not showing up. being late. Never practicing. Not bring music to lesson. Not getting a metronome or asking music director for one.
I have to write a report after each lesson in which my boss then emails it to his parents (in Korea).
I have included things like, Needs to practice more, needs a metronome,
so anyway..... last week, After teaching another student I went to the copy room and there on the floor were the 2 reeds I gave out, with the tips broken. I paid for those reeds. I realize this kids at this school have a hard time getting supplies. But I felt like this was a hostile move on his part.
I did not write his lesson report becuz I was torn on what to say.
I picked up the 2 reeds and was thinking about showing him this week (tomorrow) that i found them.......
what would you do/say - if anything at all?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-12-03 13:23
You need to do and say something. The student obviously doesn't want to be be there, probably because he's rebelling against his parents, or perhaps because he has problems with a woman telling him what to do. It may even be that he has no music (or at least no clarinet) in him.
I think he broke the reeds because he felt weak for not being able to play them, or because he can't express his resentment against his parents, or you in any other way. His only outlet was the inoffensive reeds.
You don't want to get caught between his parents saying "Ya gotta" and him saying "I ain't gonna." You need to tell him that you can't help him if he doesn't want to be helped. He's getting in the way of the other students, and if he can't bring himself to keep up, you'll have to fire him as a student.
This will light a fire under him and force him and his parents to make a decision that's not your responsibility. My prediction is that his parents will win and he'll come back, but be sure he does so on your terms.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2012-12-03 19:08
I'd work on what to say with your boss. Hopefully your boss knows what's been happening and can advise you constructively on what needs to be said.
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-12-03 19:29
Could it be possible it's time for a change in pace? What I see: Not practicing, lashing out, unhappiness.
Music should be a joy to play, and if he is not finding joy in music, then maybe this is the first problem to address. Maybe it would be pertinent to ask your student some questions: Why does he enjoys music? Why does he enjoy the clarinet? How does he see the clarinet in his future? How does he feel his lessons are going? What music does he like to listen to?
His being a 15 year old, I would assume many people are telling him what to do and how to be. It is possible there aren't many open ears for him. And while I would probably keep it just on music and not his personal life, I think listening would go a long way to understanding your student's behavior, and would give you his respect.
I guess one last point to say is to reserve the passion for music and instruction if you choose to have this talk. It may even be best when having this talk to forget you are a musician or his music teacher all together. Be completely objective and open, and don't take anything he says to heart. It is very very possible he doesn't yet understand why he feels how he feels, and is just all emotion without any substance. If you can appease a bad feeling or two, you can replace them with a concept or action that is pleasing, and lead him on the road to success.
I do wish you the best. You are a good teacher for caring.
Drew S.
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Author: reed and MP dude
Date: 2012-12-04 09:22
I didn't read the other posts, because this could be a big issue between the instructor and the student.
For janlynn is your boss the conductor? It really doesn't matter. I'd first find out how he's doing in school with friendships and grades from his other subjects.
I don't look at these broken reeds as being brat, spoiled, what have you. My guess is he is very frustrated and this is a mild anger issue. He couldn't play a harder reed. Well maybe adjust it for him. I've played 5 strength reeds that played like a 2 strength because the came at best sucked! The reed dyed in 3 minutes. I've played 4 strength reeds that needed major adjustments.
Late in my final year of college, BA, I had no money, well very little and buying a box of reeds really hurt my budget. I had to play on the streets in Philly just to make a few bucks just to eat. Christmas time, cold and snow. I played the sax. This was in 1977.
Well from frustration, not being able to find a clarinet reed from a box of Vandorens. not a single reed worked. I took the second box, my last box of reeds, Vandorens, opened them, took all of them out, held all of them in my hand with the tips facing down and without playing them I smashed the whole pile all at once. Thats how mad I was. Yes a very dumb thing to go. I also cut my hand.
From playing in the street I made a few bucks and bought some Mitchell Lurie reeds. My next lesson...
My professor asked why I was acting pissed off when playing. Smart teacher. He said your music sounds like you are mad. Well I told him what happened and smashing the whole box of reeds. Without thinking for a second he said GOOD!
If this was another teacher, or my parents, trust me the situation would have been different.
So what do you do? Make a joke out of it? Ask if he felt better doing this? I just don't know this kid nor do I know you.
Explore a little. If his grades in general are decent, anything above a D or a C, your choice, I may just say I saw the broken reeds I gave you. You must have been mad. Lets try something different, teach him how to adjust reeds, and most of all .......
Make sure his horn, his mouthpiece, are in perfect working condition. One leaking pad in the upper register or anywhere on the horn will surely take the fun out of playing.
You need to play the horn, the whole setup with his reed he is using. Germs - use alcohol, bleach swabs. You won't get sick. nor will he.
Well after you have done your best at checking out things, this most likely will lead you to the problem and hopefully the answer.
As far as emails to the parents, I would simply say we are exploring subjects such as reeds and clarinet care. Oh, I forgot. He may have a bent key. With dried out cork joints maybe he is forcing the middle section to hard bending the keys. Maybe he got mad and banged the horn as I did with the reeds.
Sit back and relax you will probably find the answers. As a past college instructor and a present symphony player music can be emotional. When the lady students cry well I give them a kleenex and continue right away. Most of the time I already know what the problem is, so I usually don't stop teaching. Some students think I'm too hard. Well if they want to become symphony players they must be able to play as well as their teacher or perhaps even better.
Let us know what you do, because every situation is different.
A and Bb r13's new.
Bb r13 1963 backup
Vandoren 56
Ciaccia custom mouthpiece
1.07mm facing amazing mouthpiece
2 Kaspers as spares
Post Edited (2012-12-04 09:39)
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Author: Noqu
Date: 2012-12-04 10:10
Hmm ... just my (inexperienced) 2 cents: I believe a 15 year old craves (and deserves) to be taken seriously. Smashing a couple of reeds you gave him (and leaving them in a place for you to see), I would think is a very articulate and clear way to say "f... you all". This should get an open and honest answer. You are a person, too. Show that you are hurt/angry/frustrated/sad by this (but of course, without reciprocating - this is not about making him feel bad, but about understanding what he makes other people feel).
Many teachers and "education-oriented persons" tend to react in a way full of understanding and go out of their way to explain to themselves why youth, circumstances, childhood experience and whatnot made a person do hurtful things - depriving the person of the experience of being treated honestly, more like an equal.
I guess what I would do is put the reeds (very visibly) on the table for the next lesson, and wait until the end for him to say something about it. But stay un-angry about it :-).
noqu
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2012-12-04 11:18
thanks for all the comments, insights and advice......
just to make things a bit more clear.....
* I work for a music academy. Some of us teachers go to this boarding school to give private lessons. So my boss is the director of the music academy. My students director is the director at his school. Lessons are given at night and I never see his music director.
* I remember getting the feeling early on that he wasnt happy and DID question him if taking lessons was something he really wanted to do. He assured me he did and that he would put more effort into practicing. But that never happened.
* I believe it was the next lesson where he told me he REALLY wanted to be a piano player "but that dream was not to be".
* I have a feeling his parents are the ones who want him to play clarinet. WHY they dont want him to play piano, i dont know.
* I think possibly there may be a culture difference as he is from Korea?
I am going to talk to him again today - i am a kind and understanding person. I will have patience and try to "hear" him.
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2012-12-04 12:12
I am torn about what to say on this one.
If the student has been a "challenge" for a long time (the reeds incident may be the final straw but the inital post made it clear that there had been poor timekeeping, lack of application to things like bringing music and getting a metronome etc.) at 15 if he really isn't keen to learn (and JanLynn says that his promises to practise harder were not kept) then why make him? Perhaps the music director and the parents need to be informed that he does not seem to be flourishing. One imagines that the parents pay for the lessons as an "extra" so presumably they would not want to do so if they are not appreciated and made the most of.
On the other hand I have some sympathy for the child (which he still is) being packed off to boarding school in a foreign country and in a situation which seems very impersonal and disjointed (emails to parents, no contact between the music director and the instrumental teacher) but at the same time rather regimented (a lesson report after every lesson!?)
Then again I remember a pupil I once had who was either very lacking in interest or aptitude or both and one day turned up for her lesson with the "Oh dear a key's come off my clarinet". Whether or not this was a deliberate attempt to sabotage the lesson I don't know (I am a bit suspicious) but I just got out my screwdriver and fixed it without saying a word. May be JanLynn could say " I notice that the reeds I gave you last time were broken - try these" (whether of the same type or a softer one)
Good Luck
Vanessa.
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2012-12-04 12:38
Thanks Vanessa.
regarding the lessons reports.
This is something that is done at the academy where I work. After each lesson we write would we worked on in the lesson, how the student did, any suggestions, and what the homework is. We then go and talk to the parent after each lesson and go over the report with them so they stay informed and involved with their childs lessons and progress. I find that the parents really like this instead of sending the child into a room and then not knowing.
But - at the boarding school - there is no parent to talk to. No adult to keep these kids on track with their music studies. Its all left up to the student. Since it is at night time as well, it is left to the student to be on time (or to even show up). It is left to the student to practice. There is no adult reminding or asking if they have done it.
This whole discussion has got me understanding the situation better in which I should give these kids a bit of a break - but just where do I draw the line when nothing is being panned out?
I will see how things go today and consider talking to my director about it.
I teach 2 other Korean boys there. but they dont seem to have as many issues as my 15 yr old.
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Author: Pastor Rob
Date: 2012-12-04 13:01
Janlynn,
The teacher/student dynamic is different in Korea. It's not always as easy to adapt to a new culture as it is to learn a new language. Don't be too hard on him, but don't waste your money giving him reeds either. I've never heard of a Korean parent that wanted their child to focus on clarinet over piano. The standards for admission in a good university as a performance major are incredibly difficult there. It's too bad he won't put honest effort into learning clarinet. Be patient, but firm. Perhaps he'll come around and be thankful for you.
(I have pastored the Seoul First Baptist Church for nearly 14 years.)
Pastor Rob Oetman
Leblanc LL (today)
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Author: andrewcsq
Date: 2012-12-04 13:14
Hey,
Just wanted to point out something. There was something mentioned about a "culture difference" because he's Korean. I'm not Korean. I'm Singaporean. But I don't really think there's THAT much of a significant difference between the mindset of us "Asian people" and you "Caucasian people".
We (or at least 16 year old I am) are just like any other kid. Want to try to gain fulfillment out of life, trying to find our footing, our place.
Sure, our parents have different expectations, maybe. But this is a globalized age. Just, please, resist the temptation to view this incident too much through the lens of race or ethnicity.
Andrew
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2012-12-04 13:28
Andrew, thats a good point - however, I dont believes I was putting more emphasis on the fact that he is korean. but at the same time, i felt it was important enough to point out.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2012-12-05 08:26
"I remember getting the feeling early on that he wasnt happy and DID question him if taking lessons was something he really wanted to do. He assured me he did and that he would put more effort into practicing. But that never happened."
I've said the same thing. It's what you say when you don't want to offend the teacher, and you're convinced that playing a musical instrument is what you "should" be doing and that you "should" like it. Saying "No, I don't want to do this" takes a ton of balls. Especially if the thing you're doing is something your parents want you to do and/or that you perceive some societal pressure about.
IMHO, if you're not running home to play it, it's time for a different instrument or a different pursuit, or at least a hiatus.
They say "the instrument chooses the person", and I'm finding a lot of truth to that, and as my personality evolves I'm drawn to different instruments that are more compatible. Hell, sounds like he wants to play piano. Is there any reason he shouldn't?
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2012-12-05 11:16
Good point Alex! Even though my words were gentle and accepting if it was something he didnt want to do, he still may have felt the need to say yes.
i remember "running home to practice" as a 4th grader. lol ok, at that point it wasnt practice, it was just playing and playing and playing until i was made to stop. lol
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2012-12-05 11:17
btw - all lessons at that school were cancelled yesterday so i could not talk to him.
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-12-05 13:54
That may be a blessing. Some time off may be just the thing to settle some nerves. It is still good to have a chat with him, and maybe all your students. Following up every half year on how the student feels about his/her own progress/music/your service could be a good for your student/teacher relationship. It could let the student at least feel that he/she has some say in what happens (even though your direction is really the answer. To be fair your lesson plan would be a reflection of the student).
I had a thought yesterday, but since you were going to talk with your student, I didn't want to overload the subject. Since you have some time, my thought was this: This talk extends way past reeds, it's a concern of emotion as it relates to music. In lieu of this, I wonder if it isn't better to drop the reed subject, at least for now. It may be better to think of it as follows:
You thought your student may have benefited from different reeds, and you gave him out. You are a nice person for giving him that gift. Through reasons that aren't your fault, the reeds didn't fit the student. I would not plan on spending my money on this student for some time, until his focus is readjusted and you can trust him, but you tried to help him and you did learn more about him (what you learned is negative, unfortunately, but, as we've been talking about, as teachers we can turn those negatives into positives).
I'll make one last point and say that there are some students that cannot be helped, and that's ok. It does not make you a bad teacher or a bad person, it doesn't even make the student a bad student, it just means it wasn't a good fit. However, open communication works for many, and I hope it works for you in this situation.
Good Luck
Drew S.
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2012-12-05 13:54
Someone needs to be the adult here and I think it is you. I think you should chat with the student about the reeds and how it bothered you that they somehow got broken. Do you know for sure he did it? If so, explain why you wanted to try harder reeds and what they can do to help his playing later on as he adjusts to them. And then listen. Tell him what you appreciate about his playing and explain what learning an instrument is all about....more than just making sounds for sure. This might be a cultural issue I don't know about, but what if you apologized in some way for creating a problem for him? You are the adult here, remember.
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2012-12-05 14:26
well it has just come to my attention that his tuition for this semester has not been paid which may put him in jeopardy for lessons next semester. seems like this is all goes through 3rd and 4th parties.....(im ot even sure if its his parents who pay for the lessons or another party).
this has given me the opportunity to let my boss know that it is my opinion the student is not happy and that it is my impression he does not want to be playing clarinet. i laid out all the reasons why.
i am awaiting a call back
i continue to appreciate the feedback i am getting
for the record i have 8 students - all boys - ages 8, 11,11,11, 12, 14, 14, and 15. I dont have a problem with any of my other students. I do question if i am a good teacher but I believe I am. I am kind and understanding and forgiving of missed practices etc....i believe in giving to my students more than just my knowledge of music. This is the first time I have encountered difficulty. Im sure it will not be the last.
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-12-05 16:25
It may not be the last, but I don't expect you'll see it often. As you say, only 1 out of 8 students are having difficulty. I imagine if you had 10 or 20 students, you would still only have 1 student with problems. This is just how life is. We all want a 100% success rate, and while that is a nice goal to shoot for, to demand that result in yourself is surely above and beyond what a good teacher should expect. It appears that this student's life is overwhelmed beyond music, and that is not your fault nor your place to try and fix. Your boss will know more about the situation, and will hopefully have some good advice on how to approach this one in particular. It sounds like you've done the right things.
Drew S.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2012-12-05 18:27
Ultimately you will not always have only students who prepare or even want to be taking lessons. I've had students with attitudes that make them really difficult to teach! I am calm and firm about what I expect from them.
One student always complained about having to play things the "right" way (i.e. the rhythm/articulation/notes etc that were written) and I always told her that that's all right to feel that way, but that for a band test, if she wanted a good grade she should learn to play them that way. I also told her (frequently) that I ultimately don't care how she plays something or wants to play something. I'm there to teach her what the dots on the page mean and that's about it. I also told her that she could play stuff however she wanted _for herself_ whenever she wanted!
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-12-05 20:10
My computer has been down for several days and I'm only now catching up on several recent threads. As I've read through the discussion here, something seems unclear - maybe I've just read too fast and missed something. I apologize in advance if my hasty reading is at fault.
Janlynn, you say in your opening post that the 3-1/2 reeds "sounded like they were too hard." What was the student's reaction to them during the lesson? Did he continue to play on them or show signs that *he* thought they *felt* too hard? How did you deal with their sounding too hard? How did the experiment end while he was with you for the lesson?
I don't want to discount any of the other attitudinal issues he's shown, but in this case he did pretty much what I might do to reeds that were in some way frustrating me. You clearly felt you were doing a kindness and giving him the gift of these two reeds. He may not have understood that they were meant as a gift. Had you ever supplied reeds to him before, maybe if he came to a lesson without a playable one of his own.
FWIW, I do give reeds to students both when they come without a usable one and when I want them to try a different strength. To tell the truth, I would never take a reed back and give it to someone else once the student had played on it long enough to be sure of his reaction to it, positive or negative. I toss it in a trash can if the student is uncomfortable with it. If some of my students had any idea I was having them try used reeds, they'd never take one from me (they hesitate enough about trying mouthpieces that have ever touched others' lips.) If I give a student a reed or two to try at home (after testing them briefly during a lesson), I'll never see what happens to them. Sometimes the student brings the new reed, still playing on it, to the next lesson, but sometimes he is using something else - usually his old strength - at the next lesson, and the new reeds are missing who knows where. I don't so much think of these occasional reeds myself as gifts - they're part of my overhead as a clarinet teacher and are well covered within the fee I charge for the lesson.
You're obviously much closer to this situation than any of us, and the broken tips may well have been the most recent act in a campaign of hostility to the clarinet lessons in general - you'd be the better judge of that than we can be. Situations like this one (as it has developed over time) are always hard to deal with, and having no direct contact with other adults who are connected to this student certainly makes it all the more difficult.
Karl
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2012-12-06 12:53
the funny thing is that that morning i had just bought my clarinet ensemble some buttons that read " its all fun and games until someone breaks a reed" lol and then ...
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2012-12-06 13:41
Just tell him that the reeds cost money, and you wouldn't have bought them if he was going to break them. From my experience teaching, and as one in the past(!), teenage boys don't enjoy long moral lessons.
In terms of the problems of the student, it sounds like you really want him to progress. That's a noble aim, but its more about what YOU want than what he wants. If he wanted to progress, he would play more. So, try to find ways to make the lessons less painful for both of you. I have no idea what standard he is, but there are lots of film scores with backing tracks that you can just play along to - these type of things are good, because they provide an emotional response that playing a single line instrument doesn't really do for a lot of people.
At the heart of this, there is you, the student, and his parents, all with different expectations of what the student should be doing. But really the student has to have the motivation, and everyone's expectations need to take that into account. So establishing common ground with the parents is also important.
Finally, if you really want your student to progress in spite of him, you will have to prioritise musical things rather than technical things (e.g reeds!) - everything that makes music exciting and enjoyable. He may even find that to do some of those exciting things, he need to find techniques that can. None of this may work, but its worth a shot.
Hope some of this is useful - really writing off the cuff, so sorry if my expression is poor.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-12-07 12:26
janlynn, your questions and responses are so thoughtful that I think you can trust your own instincts and do what looks right to you as the circumstances evolve.
There can be another reason why students fail to practice the lessons: maybe the problem is the music itself. Have you talked with your student about repertory? Clarinet players have such limited repertory that maybe there's not a lot to talk about, but if he's studying from the usual lesson books, he may be bored to death with the watered-down bits and pieces of music. Making things easier for him may backfire if that's part of what's wrong. Some students (I was one of them, by the way) do better with "mean" teachers who kick butt and make demands.
If his parents do pay up and keep him in the lessons, he might respond to a challenge, work harder and do better if you handed him the complete score of something that seems way beyond his abilities. Might be worth a try, anyhow. Or he might have a strong bias against music from a particular period. Maybe he hates Mozart and wants to play mid-20th century serialists.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: JazzyAndrew
Date: 2012-12-07 12:44
A little insight for you from somebody who has had a fair bit of experience with South Korean students.
I agree with Andrew from Singapore said that there is little genetic difference between Asians and Caucasians.
I think, however, that there might be a cultural difference between a kid who grew up in the South Korean education system and one who grew up in a North American education system.
You have not said how long this kid has been in the U.S..
A few things about the Korean system.
Highschool has three years.
Class size is about 40.
All three grades start at 8 or 830 am.
Senior 1 finish at 830 pm
Senior 2 finish at 930 pm
Senior 3 finish at 11 pm.
Students generally stay in their own classroom, it is easier to just move the teachers about. There is a culture of adoration for teachers, but it has been eroding. Teacher are not allowed to hit students, but in my experience it is still fairly widespread.
This is a hothouse environment, mirrored in the outside community. South Koreans average more working hours per year than any other country in the OECD. In 1950 South Korea was a developing country. Nearly all old people are short.
In 1970 it was still a developing country.
In the 1980's after massive protests and thousands of deaths the South Koreans overthrew the military dictatorship.
By the 2000's this was a country that belonged to the OECD. They have no natural resources, so it was people, technology and training that got them there as well as lots and lots of hard work.
The parents of your student, and their parents saw the effects of hard work, but the current generation of students have seen life as much easier, they are all well fed, taller than their parents and grandparents due to a much better diet, and often seem to wonder why they should work so hard.
Take such a student out of a school environment that is very very formal, students bowed to me all the time, and put them into a western education system, and it is often hard for them to see the new rules, it appears to them that there are none.
I found it wothwhile to draw fairly strict lines for such students, and to explain to them what I thought the problem was, that they were having trouble working out how to deal with the new system, and that I would help them.
Using my poor Korean helped, as they would then be able to correct me, reversing the power balance a little.
Hope this helps a little.
a
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