 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: WhiteFish
Date: 2012-11-21 17:51
Hi I'm new here but I have a question. The metal ring on the bell of my wooden clarinet is really loose. I have taken it to the shop before and the put epoxy on it but after a while it loosed up again. The main problem is that when I'm playing sometimes the loose ring vibrates and makes a buzzing noise. If I removed the metal ring would this damage the sound more or get rid of it?
I play clarinet.
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Author: lhoffman
Date: 2012-11-23 01:29
Is there a gap between the bell and the ring? Is so, you can work some thin paper down in there far enough to stop it from moving, and trim the excess with a razor.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-11-23 01:57
I'm not sure you're going to find a better repair than epoxying it. Maybe the epoxy wasn't properly mixed or put in the best place or placed under enough pressure while it was setting up. The easiest fix may be to try having it done again. It's hard to imagine that the ring is under enough stress from anywhere to force a good epoxy (or maybe cyanoacrylate - Krazy Glue) bond apart.
Karl
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-11-23 06:47
Use some more epoxy, but when you mix it, do it in a plastic cup and then float the cup in hot water until the epoxy is thin and runny. Put something like plastic wrap or duct tape on one side of the ring and inject the warm epoxy into the gap from the other side, keeping the instrument vertical to prevent leakage. Use full-strength epoxy, not the 5-minute stuff. I use Araldite, but there are lots to choose from. When the epoxy is cured tidy it up with fine wet and dry paper. If you mix some grenadilla dust into the epoxy before injecting it you'll get a good colour match.
Tony F.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-11-23 07:20
Forgot to mention, use a disposable syringe to inject the warm epoxy into the gap.
Tony F.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-11-23 11:58
Tony, when you do this, do you need to put any kind of pressure around the ring while the epoxy is setting? Rubber around it? A bench vice gently snugged up?
Karl
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-11-23 12:49
Hi Karl,
I'm assuming that your bell ring is a continuous ring. If this is the case just position it for best fit and secure it in that position with tape. If you have a ring with a join and the join has opened up, you may have to make up some sort of clamp to hold it closed up. Try something like a large hose clip and, as before, set it up for best fit. If it has really opened up then this repair is probably beyond your scope and your best course would be to take it to a repair shop. Know your limitations as far as repair work goes. Don't ask me how I know this!!!!
Tony F.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-11-23 13:10
Tony F wrote:
> Hi Karl,
> I'm assuming that your bell ring is a continuous ring. If this
> is the case just position it for best fit and secure it in that
> position with tape. If you have a ring with a join and the join
> has opened up, you may have to make up some sort of clamp to
> hold it closed up. Try something like a large hose clip and, as
> before, set it up for best fit. If it has really opened up then
> this repair is probably beyond your scope and your best course
> would be to take it to a repair shop. Know your limitations as
> far as repair work goes. Don't ask me how I know this!!!!
>
Thanks Tony (I won't ask how you know this). The only loose ring I've had to deal with was on my very old (bought in the 1960s) Buffet Eb. The ring had a join that had come apart and I did have Mike Hammer make the epoxy repair for me.
How are bell rings actually installed in the first place. I've heard of machines, but have never seen one, that essentially force rings tight around the rim of the bell, and I've always wondered about whether it's practical when a bell ring is damaged or just loosens (wood shrinkage?) to simply have a new one installed the same way the original was.
On the other side of the question, does the bell ring serve a function other than visual trim? It's the only ring on the clarinet that doesn't seem to be reinforcing anything. Would the instrument play any differently with the ring removed completely? It seems to me I've seen some "modern" bell designs that don't have them at all.
Karl
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-11-23 15:31
Apart from the cosmetic aspect, bell rings have a protective function. Some makers don't use them, and I've noticed that they tend to use bells with quite thick walls at the flare, as per Boosey and Hawkes. A lot of older instruments without bell rings have chips and dings in the edges of the bell.
I've tightened up a few loose bell rings, but I've never had reason to remove one. There are tools for fitting them, and some larger repair shops would probably have one. With the introduction of plastic and composite instruments the protective function of the ring has to some extent been eliminated, but it still has a cosmetic function.
None of my B & H instruments have rings, and I'm puzzled as to why B & H found it necessary to fit them to instruments made for export to the US.
Tony F.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2012-11-25 00:22
Some bell rings have two short pins soldered in them which fit in holes in the wood bell edge. These have been seen on Thibouville clarinets. The ring may have been rolled onto the bell and the pins soldered in after that assembly.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2012-11-25 20:16
Tony, I am pretty sure that reason for bell rings on B&H exports was purely cosmetic/marketing., They wanted their clarinets to look more like the French instruments that were much more widely sold in the USA.
Why else did Leblanc move from their sensible in-line trill keys to the older style if it was not to make their clarinets look more like Buffets.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-11-25 22:08
I think you're probably spot on, Norman. Now the wheel has turned a bit further, and most of of the specialist bell makes don't use rings.
Tony F.
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Author: Campana
Date: 2012-11-25 22:27
I should think one of the best ways to fit a continuous ring would be to manufacture it as an interference fit and then heat it to expand it. Push it in place when it's hot and it should shrink when cooling to a vice like grip.
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Author: reed and MP dude
Date: 2012-11-27 15:18
What happens when using epoxy when the bell ring turns? When the bell expands will it crack from the pressure? This seems to be problems during the 4 seasons.
A and Bb r13's new.
Bb r13 1963 backup
Vandoren 56
Ciaccia custom mouthpiece
1.07mm facing amazing mouthpiece
2 Kaspers as spares
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-11-27 23:17
If you look at the Buffet factory video on YouTube you'll see early on in that the bell already has the bell ring fitted in place at some stage before the final machining (joints are usually left to rest in between each stage of machining) and the bell ring is profiled along with the rest of the outside of the bell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DZgoYmbU-w
(what's the music played in this clip? I've never heard it before)
You rarely get cracks from compression - socket rings are keeping the sockets in compression to counteract the outward pressure from the tenon cork when the joints are fitted, so a metal bell ring will keep the bell in compression provided the wood doesn't shrink and leave the bell loose.
So filling a loose bell ring with epoxy or other kind of filler should only serve to prevent the bell ring rattling or turning round and won't crack the bell as it will be held in compression.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-11-27 23:18)
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