 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SchlockRod
Date: 2012-10-19 15:30
I really like the idea of a reed that won't change with moisture or lack thereof (Clarinet is a double for me and has to go 0 to 60 quickly after being parked for an hour).
I also like the sound of Legere reeds. I have a Quebec and a Signature. Both sound very nice in their own ways. Yeah I know it's not cane, and may leave a little something to be desired, but you have to give it an A for consistent (day to day) tone and no less than a B for tone quality, at least with my doubler's chops.
But here's the thing: I switch directly from, say, a V12, #2 1/2 or 3, both of which give me a very very precise scale, very easily, to either of these Legeres, and the pitch immediately drops by 10 to 15 cents, and is also much more variable through the range of the instrument.
It's not like these are #1 1/2 or 2 Legeres. The Sig is a 2 3/4 and feels (resistance) about like the #2 1/2 V12. The Quebec is a 3 1/4, and feels if anything a bit harder than a #3 V12.
Can anyone tell me why this is?
If I want to use these, I'm looking at having my barrel shortened, because I find myself straining and struggling (voicing and also resorting to clamping my lips and clenching my jaw, which is just wrong) to get the pitch up. In contrast, I can get a nice sound and feel very relaxed with V12s, Rico Reserve, etc.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2012-10-19 15:51
I exclusively use the Legere Signature and find them excellent in every aspect.
No more problems with cane reeds. Simply pick it up and play it and sanitize with alcohol rubbing compound after every use. There are no pitch problems like you speak of whatsoever.
Post Edited (2012-10-19 16:00)
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Author: William
Date: 2012-10-19 16:07
When I first tried Legere reeds, six or seven years ago, I noticed that same effect and didn't like it. However, since exclusively changing to synthetic reeds four years ago and playing them "day after day", I find no "drop" in the pitch. I still use the same barrel lengths and mouthpieces and my intonation is stable. Through use, you should be back up to pitch in no time. FWIW, I play in two orchestras, three wind ensembles and a swing band--all on Forestone reeds.
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2012-10-19 19:40
I'd be worried about wiping my Legere reeds down with rubbing alcohol. I think it would prematurely deteriorate the reed. I wipe mine down with a clean cloth after using and occasionally run a little tap water over it too. That's about as clean as I need it to be. If you're too germaphobic, the clarinet isn't an ideal instrument anyway. Most serious germs enter the body through the eyes and the nose. The hydrochloric acid in the stomach is remarkably effective at killing most inocent bacteria that would be left on a mouthpiece or a reed.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2012-10-19 22:28
The rubbing compound does not do anything to the reeds other than kill the bacteria. I have been doing this for a number of years now and the reeds do not deteriorate. In the past I have had a problem with sores in my mouth which stopped after I switched from cane to Legere reeds and my thinking was the possibility that the germs were trapped in the fibers of the cane or perhaps I was just allergic to cane. Just glad to have solved the problem. So the germs had nothing to do with stomach acid killing them because it was my mouth that was giving me the trouble.
Post Edited (2012-10-19 22:30)
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2012-10-19 22:58
Ah yes, I've had those type of sores too. Those are generally virus in origin and yes indeed, stomach acid can not kill them. I'm still surprised that alcohol had no bad effect on the Legere reed. My guess is that ordinary soap and water would be just as effective.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2012-10-20 04:46
I admit I didn't check pitch between reeds when switching, but I was still able to pla in tune with legere.
One thing I'd recommend is trying to use them as exclusively as possible for at least a week to give yourself time to get used to the slightly different feel and "learn" it in a sense. Of course if there's some performance and you feel more comfortable on cane, go ahead, but practice, warmup, and rehearse with the legere for a week. Maybe it'll warm up to you?
I personally love the legere reed. I tried to go back to cane for about a month and got ticked off at one reed in a box being great and the others needing so much work before they sounded decent. I just plain don't want to spend the time working and adjusting and readjusting and breaking in reeds, and so far, no complaints about my sound. Technique? Maybe. Sound? No one yet.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2012-10-20 07:02
I must admit that after trying all the different models of Legere reeds prior to the introduction of the Signature Series I could not find one that produced the sound and feel of cane. But the Signature is such an advancement over previous models that in a blind test it is near impossible to tell the difference as far as the listener goes.
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Author: William
Date: 2012-10-20 16:17
Yes, what sfalexi wrote. Only my choice has been Forestone, with the possibility of newly discovered (but "been around for a while") Harry Hartmann fibrereeds. I think I may reaudition the new Legere Signiture reed as others have noted it has "changed". Regardless, it's permanently synthetic reeds for me--done with cane and all the work it takes. No one seems to notice anyhow except maybe that I don't change reeds like a gopher looks for nuts.
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Author: richard1952
Date: 2012-10-20 16:34
If you feel the need to sterilize your reeds you may want to use peroxide. Not harmful to your mouth and probably not harmful to the reed. I used to use a soak in peroxide for cane reeds and it improved the playability of the reed.
richardseaman@cox.net
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Author: SchlockRod
Date: 2012-10-21 13:32
As OP I'm free to follow off-topic red herrings, right?:-)
That said, I believe rubbing "compound" is a paste-like product that is used to rub out, say, paint jobs on cars, and I assume we're talking isopropyl rubbing alcohol here, right? In which case, I would strongly caution against use of rubbing compound. It contains abrasives and who knows what toxic compounds, and Dutch Rush has been shown to be far more suitable for adjusting reeds.
I suppose the pure isopropyl alcohol would surpass the typical 4% solution of hydrogen peroxide in germ-killing power. But that says nothing about the potential damaging effects of either on (a) the player or (b) his reed, be it cane, polymer, fiber-reinforced matrix, etc. We need a chemist...
Therefore I recommend as a happy medium regular use of 86-proof (43%) Scotch, since it has been conclusively shown to have valuable health benefits for players, their playing, and their reeds. But avoid the 80-proof varieties which proliferate so these days.
"Pristine, perfect. One of the great livers of our time. Awash in Dewars and full of health."
- Paul Desmond, describing his liver, after it got a clean bill of health, the bad news being that he had incurable lung cancer*
* This was before Dewar's began watering down their Scotch to 80-proof.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2012-10-21 15:13
Wow, sometimes when some people get into their senior years like myself a senior moment happens and you mean to say one thing and for some strange reason something different comes out such as with the rubbing compound. Thanks for the clarification.
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Author: William
Date: 2012-10-21 15:18
I thought a senior moment was like getting your A out for a band gig.
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Author: SchlockRod
Date: 2012-10-30 16:32
Update on this: I been playing the Legere Signature 2 3/4 more, and part of why it plays flat may simply be that it's too soft, and that my chops are developing... But I still think something in the reed's cut or material properties is contributing.
The Quebec 3 1/4 feels considerably harder/more resistant, maybe too much so (according to Legere's chart it should be just slightly harder than the Sig 2 3/4). And the Quebec is a bit easier to get up to pitch, but I still find myself chomping, tensing, clenching as with the Sig, after playing for a while.
I'm a see if I can exchange the Sig for a #3. But I think I will still need to get a shorter barrel if I'm going to use these Legeres.
Some Rico Reserves 2 1/2 that I've broken in also feel too soft, like this Sig. But they play beautifully in tune, as do V12s 2 1/2.
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2012-10-31 21:53
Like the others, I'm not sure what's going on here. I've used these reeds for years and have never had this problem.
Are you treating your playing differently (i.e. changing your embouchure or playing techniques) for some reason when you use the plastic reed, or is everything exactly the same?
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
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Author: SchlockRod
Date: 2012-11-23 13:58
Update on this topic:
In response to the last post from Sean, everything I've been doing with my mouth/air is the same, synthetic or cane... and again, the resistance (=hardness?) of the Legeres is not less than that of the cane reeds that play more in tune. I ask "=hardness?" because it seems pretty generally agreed that softer reeds can tend to play flat.
Anyway, the latest experience I've been having leads me to conclude that the tendency to flatness with these Legeres is primarily when playing more loudly/forcefully.
If I back off and play at mp level or lower, they seem to be much better in tune, pretty much matching the cane reeds.
I know louder>>>flatter is a general tendency with any setup, that beginners especially have to learn to adapt to.
But I'm beginning to conclude that the Legeres suffer more from this, for some reason. Why might that be?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-11-23 15:31
My own opinion has always been that, regardless of the overall stiffness of the synthetic reeds, their designers haven't yet managed to produce tip characteristics that match those of cane. I'm sure it's very hard to separate out all the effects of different areas of the vamp, but the way synthetics are made seems to produce tips that are often too flexible, or at least more flexible than cane in the very thinnest areas. My own reaction, of course, only based on playing them. I don't have the tools to make any measurements that would demonstrate or deny any of this.
And all of that said, there are lots of players using Legere and Forestone reeds who do learn to play in tune with them and produce excellent results.
Karl
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Author: William
Date: 2012-11-23 17:22
Fact often overlooked: it's the PLAYER that plays in tune, not the reed, mouthp[iece, barrel or clarinet. One uses equipement that plays easiest or most efficiently, but ultimately, it is the clarinetist who controls intonation. It is too easy to find fault with other factors and ignore the base problem, a galvanized ear. I use synthetic reeds on all my instruments and have not had a problem playing in tune. Nor has anyone complained about my sound--in fact, I've usually been complimented.
If you have a problem playing flat, shorten your instrument. If you are sharp, lengthen it. Don't blame the reed.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-11-24 02:28
William wrote:
> Fact often overlooked: it's the PLAYER that plays in tune, not
> the reed, mouthp[iece, barrel or clarinet. One uses equipement
> that plays easiest or most efficiently, but ultimately, it is
> the clarinetist who controls intonation. It is too easy to
> find fault with other factors and ignore the base problem, a
> galvanized ear.
But he also wrote earlier:
> When I first tried Legere reeds, six or seven years ago, I noticed that
> same effect and didn't like it. However, since exclusively changing to
> synthetic reeds four years ago and playing them "day after day", I find no
> "drop" in the pitch.
So, even William seems to admit that there is some tendency for a pitch difference to be "noticeable" when switching to synthetics. He decided to continue the process of adjusting to the reeds and is now clearly happy with them (as are many other players). So it becomes a decision for you to make whether to find your way to comfort with Legeres (or explore Forestones further) or retreat back to what you already are comfortable with and play on successfully.
You may not yet have really settled on the right strength, and, while synthetics are more consistent than cane reeds, there are differences among individual synthetic reeds, even from one to another of the same model and strength, so you may need to try more of them. But the main point that I've learned from William, John Moses and others who have written enthusiastically here about synthetic reeds is that you need to learn to play on them by committing to them and playing on them consistently.
Karl
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