 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: 24lyric
Date: 2012-10-04 18:35
I'm a 50 yr old Multi-instrumentalist who has been playing specifically, clarinet, for 37 yrs. For over 30 years I have played saxes, flute/picc, and clarinets in pit orchestras/combos with 10 recent yrs. of sax/clar./flute in Jazz Bands. I'm a competent and skilled player and relish tearing into musical scores, when I get the chance. During the last show I played back in Jan. 2012, (Allegro) my Bb Yamaha Custom seized up after about 15 mins. of playing in all 3 octaves. It seemed like it got plugged up, especially on the f5 -f#. The weather was cold outside but warm inside the theatre and I was not getting the notes without having to blow very hard, even though I did not detect a leak. It was like the moisture was holding the pads down and I was having to blow them open. I have not had that experience before so it was a shock. The other clarinetist also noticed a stuffiness to her Clarinet during the show. I ended up playing my wood Normany and it was fine. I was playing on an Eddie DanielsMP, Vandoren Lig with classical faceplate, and a Vandoren rue 56 3.0 reed.
I'm now playing another show, ( My Fair Lady) and the first 2 rehs were fine. I did feel like the Yamaha needed to be regulated as the lower mechanism felt stiff. The "local" music store replaced one pad. The upper throat is corked. I played smoothly in all registers for 20 mins. and the clarinet was free-blowing, then all of. a sudden, it became difficult to play. I had to blow very hard to get descending notes F5-C4. I "blow" tested for leaks and found none, although lower air pressure eventually opened up a key. This was also our first day in the pit/dress reh.
I tried a different MP ( Vandoren B-45) - and a 3.5 Alexander Superiel reed but still struggled with the lower mechanism and getting control of the dynamics, particularity P and PP. I felt like there was so much air flow blockage and my right wrist is aching right now! ( as is my lip!)
Do You have ANY Advice for the repair person? And /or me? I'm at my wits end and ready to sell my wonderful yamaha- who never used to let me down! Perhaps it's "blown-out" like some have mentioned, regarding wood clars. Is it time for a hard-rubber Clar.? I've also been playing lots of Tenor and occasional Clar. in Jazz Band, but the clar. doesn't get the work-out like the pit gives it.
Thanks so much for any advice you can send my way. My confidence is shaken....
Post Edited (2012-10-04 23:37)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-10-04 19:09
I couldn't really get a read from your comments if the rings and keys are moving freely when this happens (I mean REALLY free - no sluggishness at all). Even if it feels warmish in the theater, the ambient air may be colder than you think. Wood and metal contract in colder atmosphere and perhaps the things that need to move up and down are just not doing that. It would be simple enough to shave a little material off the end of a rod (usually a better alternative than the posts themselves) to give a key/ring more 'play.'
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: donald
Date: 2012-10-04 19:26
Look at the A/G# (throat notes) key- is it regulated so that the A key has to move slightly before it starts to lift the G# key?
If these two keys don't have a little bit of play, sometimes it can happen that the A key pad swells up with moisture and lifts the G# slightly. This would explain why it happens after 15/20min of playing.
Another thing that can cause an intermitent problem, and is also connected with the A/G# key, is if the flat spring that pushes the A key closed digs a little hole in the surface it rubs against (or this surface gets a little bit of rust/dirt on it). This can cause the A key to not close properly, or immediately (but not to do this every time) or close but not be held down firmly. If this is causing the prolem, there WOULD be play between the two keys in the A/G# mechanism.
Over the years these are the only 2 problems i can recall that have caused the
symptoms you describe (and each has happened once in 30 years of playing 4 or 5 hours a day).
dn
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-10-04 19:29
Very possibly, some pad (perhaps with a slight tear in its covering or even a pinhole) is absorbing moisture as you play and swelling. As it swells it begins to lose contact with part of the tone hole it's supposed to cover. Could also be a key near the top of the instrument that begins to bind as the instrument warms up (a post may move slightly) and gets stuck slightly open. Anything that starts going wrong after 15 or 20 minutes is almost bound to have something to do with moisture or the instrument's rising temperature causing something to leak.
Or it could just be a normally closed key (maybe one of the RH trill keys) that binds and gets stuck slightly open the first time you use it. I had this happen to a student recently. I found the problem (her RH Eb-Bb was binding open) when the instrument stopped responding at her lesson. Then she told me it had been happening to her all week at school.
You probably have trouble finding the cause until the problem actually happens. Unfortunately, if you can't get it to happen during a practice session when you can stop and investigate - if it only happens during rehearsals or performances - it will be hard to track down. You have to try to produce the problem at a time and place where you can then carefully press on things systematically and find where the opening is.
By the way, I'm not clear on which octaves you're describing in your post. Using the graphic at the top of the page as the reference, there is no C2 on the instrument. How are you numbering the octaves?
Karl
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-10-04 19:58
F3 is the one at the bottom of the chalumeau ![[F3]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/f3.gif) . If the interval from F3 to F#3 (1/2 step up) is difficult, it's almost certainly because the F# key is binding, perhaps on the crow's foot or because the pivot screws at the top and bottom are slightly too long. Check the crow's foot and loosen the screws 1/4 turn. It's barely possible that the lower joint has shrunk longitudinally, making the ends of the key bind against the posts. It's also possible that one of the posts has loosened and rotated, binding the pivot screw against the key.
The "descending notes F3-C2" would go down to bass clarinet low C. I assume you mean F4 ![[F4]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/f4.gif) to C4 ![[C4]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/c4.gif) . If all the notes are resistant, you have a leak in the upper joint. The first place to check is the adjustment screw on the throat Ab key. If it's even slightly too tight, it opens the Ab key enough to create your problem. Another possibility is a leaking cork at the top of the upper joint or on the mouthpiece tenon. A less likely possibility is a leak around the register vent or the thumb ring insert and the wood. The really bad possibility is (kaynahora) a crack in the wood that opens up when the bore gets wet.
It's also possible that there's a crack in the barrel. Try another, or even the plastic one from your Normandy.
I believe that some Yamahas have plastic inserts in the tone holes. If yours has them, the leak could be between the insert and the wood.
Find a large repair shop that has a Magnehelic, an expensive but infallible leak tester.
In the meantime, put your good mouthpiece and the Yamaha barrel on your Normandy. You'll be surprised at how well it plays. The long term solution may be a Buffet Greenline.
Ken Shaw
Post Edited (2012-10-04 19:59)
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Author: 24lyric
Date: 2012-10-04 23:35
Thanks so much for your suggestions.
I wrote that letter at about 2am this am and apologize for not putting in the proper octaves, per theory. I was referring to the clar, range only and not the
correct F5-F#5 theoretical clar. "voice range. " My bad.......
I loosened the A Screw and it did not help.
I took the clar. in, played for 15 mins. and re-created the issue.
The technician adjusted the F5 bridge, and replaced the cork on the upper joint - Those fixes seems to really make a difference - but I'm still worried about the moisture issue. Let's see how it goes 30 mins into it.
You are all so wonderful to send your suggestions!
BTW - I tried out the Protege - Backun - REALLY great horn- not sure about the corcobola? wood though. tech said to have rings installed at joints as they can crack. Was patterned after the R13s. 2 gr$nd.
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2012-10-05 02:54
Hope those fixes take care of the problem.
If not, is it possible you have a needle spring that could be coming out of place (something I thought of when you mentioned blowing hard to get something to open). I had a needle spring in the register mechanism of my bass clarinet that was bent and weak, so every now and then it would slip down so it wasn't doing its job anymore. Something to consider if the adjustments didn't solve the problem.
----------
Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: 24lyric
Date: 2012-10-05 18:39
Played GREAT (like night and day) nearly all the way through reh. last night until last 3 songs - alternate Bb (1 and 1) leaked, which was part of upper throat D/A pad which decided not to close! Spring issue? Bridge not closing enough (again) ? Grrrr.
So back to repair shop I go......
Once again, I so appreciate the help from all of you "gearheads!"
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-10-05 20:19
Make sure the bridge keys are aligned perfectly. Even a little off can keep the pad under LH 1st finger from closing completely. Probably no spring involved. Your finger closes that hole, not a spring.
BTW, the reverse is true - if the bridge key isn't adjusted to produce an optimal 1+1 Bb, sometimes you can make the fingering work by moving the bridge keys slightly off of perfect alignment with each other.
Karl
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Author: CocoboloKid
Date: 2012-10-05 21:07
I'm assuming you don't have cork pads on your upper joint? That would certainly eliminate the possibility of absorbing moisture and swelling.
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Author: 24lyric
Date: 2012-10-05 21:38
I have all corked pads on upper joint except - D pad. Is that normally corked as well?
And yes, Karl, it was the bridge being slightly off that made the D pad not seat properly. Because I have been playing Tenor and also have small hands, I have moved my clar. bridge alignment off a bit to the left and the Tech adjusted it to that fit. Seems to be okay now.
Kinda like a car, I know enough to get by.....(quick fixes, etc) but surprisingly, have never encountered the bridge issue b4, and didn't study professionally so had no teacher to help either! Having this forum available is wonderful.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2012-10-06 05:30
This will sound odd, but from my experience, it is worth a try. Your problem happened to me (Buffet).
The throat A tone hole would get saturated with water, and even though that pad was closed, the whole clarinet would just "pack up." The cure was to run a cigarette paper under the pad to get the water out of the tone hole.
Go figure.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Campana
Date: 2012-10-06 08:31
The same thing has happened to me. While I usually try to sort my own problems out (due to the distance to what I thought was the nearest professional) this one had me beat. After a really determined search I eventually found a pro 53 miles away, located in the middle of nowhere (thank goodness for Google maps and Sat Nav). Just got an email to say the fault has been rectified and I have made arrangements to pick it up next Tuesday. I'll report back when I know what caused the problem in my case.
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