 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2012-08-19 23:46
This is mostly for you senior folks 60 and above (I'm 74).
I've been playing over four years now, and by now I thought I'd surely be playing at least a 3.5 reed. I seem to be stuck somewhere between a 2.5 and a 3.0 no matter how much I practice long tones, scales, etc.
I play a Buffet R-13, W. Grabner K-14 mouthpiece, with 2.5 to 3.0 Vandy V12s or Legere Signatures 2.75 to 3.0 reeds.
Now I know it's not a contest, but I also believe that the sound can be better with a firmer reed. A 3.5 for me is like the proverbial popsicle stick. Oh, I can extremely adjust it and make it work, but I'd sooner play a softer reed than do that.
I do have a rather nice sound (so several have told me from my community band), and I will stick with the softer reeds if I have to, but is there any hope for me, or do most seniors face a softer reed as they age?
I am (as I knock on wood) pretty healthy...work out regularly at the "Y" and play racquetball 2-3 times per week, so I don't "feel" old???
Oh, and if it's just a matter of MORE long tones, I'm willing to do that, too.
Thanks in advance for your kindly advice.
CarlT
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2012-08-20 00:45
The first clarinet at our Miami Lyric Opera plays a Buffet R13, Selmer HS** and uses a 2 1/2 reed. He has a very good sound and is a highly regarded lifetime player. Also, as has been said many times, open mouthpiece - soft reed. Closed face - hard reed. I believe a 2 1/2 reed with one mpc could easily translate to a 3 1/2 with a closed face.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2012-08-20 01:09
Carl, I hear you loud and clear!
I've written about this before, but I'm happy to share this story again. Back in the 70s when I was in college, I read an interview in the Instrumentalist magazine with Herb Blayman, then the solo clarinet player in the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra. Blayman commented that he used a softer reed than he once did, and he said that many people use softer reeds as they age. I was using a #4 or harder at the time, and couldn't figure out what Blayman was talking about.
I'm sure there are many out there who disagree with Blayman, and that's fine.
Now that I'm in my late 50s I understand Blayman's point perfectly, and I use reeds in the same range as you. If you're getting a nice sound and the reeds work for you, there is no reason why you should feel pressured to use something harder.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-08-20 03:00
Carl, every mouthpiece has different reed requirements. It isn't just the facing, it's the inside measurements as well. All of the parameters of a mouthpiece's design combine to present a certain amount of resistance to the air column.
For example, on one of Walter's K11 mouthpieces that I own, which is significantly closer-tipped than the K14, I use a #4 V12. On my Gigliotti mouthpieces, which have very similar facings to the K11 (and several of his Chicago mouthpieces, now discontinued) I own, many 4s are too soft and I have to use 4-1/2. For the past couple of weeks, I've been using the close-tipped Rico Reserve (1mm), which has exactly the same facing curve and tip opening as my Gigliottis and nearly nearly the same as the K11 and Chicagos, and I can't play anything harder than a 3-1/2 on any of the three I bought. #3s are actually more comfortable. These facings are a great deal more similar to each other than your K14, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if a #3 is just right and a #3-1/2 too hard. On his website Walter recommends a #3 - 3-1/2 range. If you're comfortable with the #3 and not with the #3-1/2, then that's the reed you should play, especially if you produce a good sound with it.
Reed strength, beyond a certain point which I think you have long passed, is a function of its relationship to the mouthpiece it's attached to, not of the physical strength or conditioning of the player. If for some reason a harder reed were genuinely important, you would need to buy the reeds you want to use and then start searching for a mouthpiece they would play well on.
Resistance, by the way, affects more than just the tone quality. Whether too little, too much or just enough, it affects intonation, flexibility, phrase length, ease and clarity of articulation and, if it decreases overall comfort, finger technique. You need a resistance level that helps you maintain control comfortably and lets you do what the music requires with the greatest efficiency.
Karl
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-08-20 03:28
Carl,
I'm around the same vintage as you. When I played at school, I worked up to playing comfortably on a Vandoren 4, and then didn't play for nearly 50 years. When I took it up again I started on 1.5's and have again worked up to playing comfortably on 3.5's and 4's, but I find that the mouthpiece I use determines what reed strength I use. On a B45 I'm comfortable with 2.5's, but on a B & H 926 I'm equally comfortable with 4's. Horses for courses. Although I haven't personally needed to go to softer reeds many of my older friends report that they have, so it seems to be a natural consequence of ageing.
Tony F.
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Author: mihalis
Date: 2012-08-20 05:14
Carl
I am 67 years old. I also play on a Grabner K14 like you and I am using V12 3 and 3.5.Get two boxes one of 3 and one of 3.5 and I bet you will be
using at least half of each box successfully.
Dont give too much importance to numbers. Just try the read.
By the way I am playing on and off for the last 45 years.
Mike
Post Edited (2012-08-20 05:17)
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Author: Wes
Date: 2012-08-20 06:50
Age has nothing to do with the reed strength you use. To get a good sound, one needs a free blowing, stable mouthpiece, high air pressure to the reed, and a reed soft enough so one does not have to work too hard.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-08-20 14:14
That's a good point. There's always a range of strengths in any box of reeds, regardless of what number is stamped on them. And they often overlap.
Karl
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2012-08-20 17:14
Thanks, Guys. I appreciate all your responses.
Karl, I pulled out my old Fobes Debut, which is very closed I believe, and tried it with a 3.5. Although it was a bit easier than the Grabner K14, it was still too hard for me.
So, I believe I should just stop worrying about harder reeds.
I didn't mention this in my previous post, but I have much the same problem with the altissimo that other current posters are discussing. One of the reasons I was hoping to play a harder reed was to make the altissimo notes speak better.
After reading all your responses, I got out several different mp's and tried different reed combinations to see which would produce the best altissimo notes, and guess what...for me it was a Legere Signature 2-3/4 on the Grabner K14. The mp's also included an M-13, 5RV-L, the K14, and the Fobes Debut. All were fairly close with the 2.75 Legere, with just an edge given to the Grabner.
CarlT
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-08-20 20:21
I don't know what facing Clark puts on the Debut. As a student mouthpiece that doesn't come in a variety of facings, I suspect it's a little more open than his most closed facings, and the curve length and baffle depth are also critical. I'm sure it's on the less resistant side, but not like, for example, his CF, CF+ or CWF, on which I do use #4 - #4.5 V12s. I'd guess the Debut is similar to a Kaspar 13 or a VD M13-Lyre.
One direction to try might be to get a box of #3 and a box of #3.5 Rico Reserve Classics, which in my experience may run slightly softer than the V12s of the same strength. Others' mileage may differ - I haven't bought enough of the Reserve Classics to have a conclusive sample, and I understand they've recently been (or are currently being) redesigned.
Also, there's so much more involved than just reed resistance in producing high notes (as the other thread demonstrates). Too hard a reed can make the altissimo very hard to control and keep in tune.
Karl
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-08-21 04:31
>> but is there any hope for me, or do most seniors face a softer reed as they age? <<
The hope is that you don't think you have to use harder reeds You can, you might, but you definitely don't have to.
I'm considerably less than half your age and I've never used reeds harder than #3. Just never found a need to since #3 reed play best for me. Sometimes I use #2.5.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2012-08-21 11:44
Hi Carl: You are experiencing something that most players do.....the search for the perfect mouthpiece/reed combination. That's why most players have lots of mouthpieces. But age, too, is a factor; our muscles just don't get stronger with practice as they used to.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2012-08-21 15:13
Carl,
I'm a 62-year old freelance player, currently playing VD B4013 and B40Lyre mouthpieces with #3 reeds (VD Traditional and Rico Reserve). I understand that this is a combination currently played by Dave Howard, Bass Cl. of the LA Phil.
As others have stated, the selection of reeds/strengths is not an "absolute" consideration, but must be done in consideration of the music you play, the equipment (i.e., mouthpiece) you use and your physical characteristics. Certainly comfort is important because it will free you to perform to the best of your ability. Don't succumb to the prevalent notion that stiffer reeds indicate better players.
Over the years I've worked to get the results I want on softer reeds, partly due to age-related considerations, but also because I've come to believe that one can get best results with the softest reed that yields good response and intonation. I used to believe that a stronger reed produced a better (i.e., darker) tone, but now believe that a more intense air-stream together with a (softer) reed that is well matched to the mouthpiece (i.e., the facing and resistance), can provide equivalent/better results.
While the marking on reeds provides a rough guide to how well they match your mouthpiece (e.g., in terms of their perceived stiffness), I have found that one needs to discover how to adjust each kind/strength of reed to any given mouthpiece to get the best results. Based on the curve of the mouthpiece and the curve of the reed's vamp, I use wet reed-rush to make the reed play softer (e.g., by thinning areas of the reed) or even harder (e.g., by "flattening" the reed's curve over its entire vamp).
One should not be overly shackled by "conventional wisdom". A little experimentation with [adjusting] different brands/strengths of reeds can be invaluable in discovering what really works for you. Once you've found the right combination, just relax and enjoy playing!
Bob Barnhart
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