 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2012-08-07 20:05
For those that are following my story, I am one week into the ownership of a 1987 R-13. I checked it out pretty carefully before purchase ... an hour of play testing over two days, suction tests, serial number checks, shining a light into the bore, everything I could think of. I did see a hairline crack that ran from the top of the barrel to the bottom on the inside. I could not see the crack anywhere on the outside. I decided it was more of a surface injury than anything else and because the rings were very tight, that the crack would be unlikely to progress to something worse. When I oiled the bore I paid special attention to the barrel.
The thing is that this particular barrel is a stock R-13 and it not only sounds very good on the R-13 Buffet I have, it also transforms the sound of a Custom Yamaha I own. When I took the instrument into Andres Santana here in Miami, he agreed to replace the tenon corks, two pads, a minor regulation and replace one cork on the bridge key for $80. I feel that all this is well worth it as I only paid $930 for the entire instrument and he and I agree that the horn is exceptionally good condition even to the point of most pads being replaced with high quality cork, and no apparent wear to key plating except in one small area of one key (E,B).
Generally I don't believe in throwing anything away, but Mr. Santana says that I should replace the barrel. I will buy a different barrel anyway because I think I need a 64 to bring the pitch up with some recordings I currently play along with.
The question is - what simple proceedure can I perform myself to insure that the barrel will continue to be useable? Bear in mind that I have already done an almond oil treatment on it and any glue I use might be rendered less effective. The oil has been absorbed, it looks healthy and smooth otherwise as does the entire instrument.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: vljenewein
Date: 2012-08-07 20:51
Keep the barrel. With the almond oil and a few more treatments the wood will absorb a bit more and become tighter, not with water, but from the moisture of the oil. I know of a process they do in Australia as well as here in the U.S. to coat the inside of the Didgeridoo to make it give more resonance and brighter tone. They mix in this 2 part epoxy and pout it down the throat (other end is plugged) and roll the Didgeridoo around a bit and turn it upside down and let the excess drain out. This is a clear coat epoxy that is used on some furniture to create a smooth permanent shiny surface. Something like that would coat the inside definitely as it creates a "core" effect and is not dependent on actually sticking to the wood, but, I believe it would anyway.
If you seal off one end of the barrel with your hand and cannot blow air out of it or air into it, there is no reason to pitch the barrel. Send it to me. I'd gladly take it off your hands.... joking of course
Vernon
Jenewein Duduks Manufacturing & Research
www.duduk.us American made Duduks
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-08-07 20:59
Why did he say you should replace the barrel? The "crack" you saw, if it doesn't go through, might just be a surface check that won't do anything even if left alone. What did Mr. Santana say he thought was wrong with it?
Karl
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Author: Wes
Date: 2012-08-07 21:37
Garth, it seems like you have bought a good instrument. If the barrel with the instrument plays best with the logo up, then it may be original to the instrument. Buffet used to align the barrel for best sound and then stamp the logo on it. Perhaps, they are now reaming a new top joint and it's barrel with the same reamer all at once to insure best alignment. On four new R13s I've bought, one last month, they all play the best with the logo up.
However, if you try that barrel with a different clarinet, it may be a good idea to try it with various rotational positions of the barrel to see where it plays best. This will also apply to the 64mm barrel you are buying for those situations where you wish to be a little higher. Some folks may not agree with this, but I rely on it. Good luck!
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2012-08-07 21:45
Actually, now my wife who is the one who dropped the Buffet off with Mr. Santana is saying that with a very bright light Mr. Santana was able to see at least some of the hairline crack on the outer surface of the barrel. I spent quite a bit of time looking at that barrel and I never saw any evidence of the crack going through to the outside. The point is that even on the inside the hairline is thinner than any hair. The crack is thinner than a pencil line, it's thinner than the fine grain-lines of the natural wood. The only thing that tells me that it is a crack is that it is continuous from top to bottom. The barrel certainly doesn't leak air and if I remember I can't really see the crack looking at the receiver shoulder. When I ran a search on repairing a crack, this board mentioned that very thin super glue (as thin as water) can actually wick into the crack. The issue here is that this crack is as thin as might make wicking difficult.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: west-wind
Date: 2012-08-08 06:44
Sometime ago a board member offered to ream out the top socket on the barrel of my vintage Albert system to allow for the use of modern mouthpieces, whilst carrying out this work it was discovered that the barrel had several hair line cracks on the external surface, he stabilised these by using a carbon fibre bandage.
It must be about 2 years since this was done and it has remained secure ever since, the repair is not obtrusive and was carried out at very little cost.
Paul
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-08-08 09:08
Wicking thin superglue into fine cracks is not a problem. Use a fine pointed tool to slightly open up the top of the crack into a V, and then support the piece with the crack facing up. Use the end of a pointed toothpick to gently dribble the glue a drop at a time into the V until it stops wicking in. Allow the glue to cure and check that the groove has been completely filled. If not, dribble some more in. When the groove is full and the glue dry, scrape and sand to finish. The glue will wick into the finest crack.
Tony F.
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Author: vljenewein
Date: 2012-08-08 12:54
Excellent post Tony!!
Vernon
Jenewein Duduks Manufacturing & Research
www.duduk.us American made Duduks
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2012-08-08 19:07
Ok, so I get super thin CA glue and let the glue wick into the barrel's crack from the inside of the bore. I think I can handle that. ... I understand you should put tape on either side of the crack so that the bore doesn't look like a holy mess when you're done. Afterwards, I lightly sand the bore to eliminate build up.
Two questions ...
1) Do I only apply the glue on the inside of the bore, or do I wait for it to dry and then apply glue to the outside?
2) Is it important to remove the rings before I start so that the glue can get in more easily? If I do that the issue becomes more difficult. I imagine I'd have to remove the rings, apply the glue and then as the glue is drying put the rings back on so that everything can dry in the final position.
If that's the case, how would I remove the rings ?... they're tight. I pretty sure I'd prefer not to remove the rings as the issue of the glue drying and quickly getting the rings back on would become an issue. Also I'd only be able to get one ring on at a time and the crack would undoubtably close oddly with the uneven pressure. CA glue dries quickly and most of the CA glue I see dries in under a few minutes. Count 2 minutes to apply the glue (At least!) and a few more to get the rings back on and I forsee a disaster of having the glue set up before the wood is set in its final position.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: vljenewein
Date: 2012-08-08 19:22
Garth, I would think you would apply the outside of the barrel, not the inside. TINY "V" . Once the glue sets and dries sanding the ouside will blend in the "scratch" lengthwise of the barrel. Yes you have to remove the rings. I would imainge a mini-butane torch or one of those windproof butane lighters would heat the ring up just enough to remove it. Wear gloves. Not too much heat either. Just enought to expand the metal and any glue they may have used.
These are my ideas.. for what it's worth.
Vernon
Jenewein Duduks Manufacturing & Research
www.duduk.us American made Duduks
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2012-08-08 19:25
vljenewein wrote:
> These are my ideas.. for what it's worth.
I think that I'd wait for instructions from someone who does it all the time, not from someone with what are good intentions but hasn't yet gotten the experience of ruining his own barrel.
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Author: vljenewein
Date: 2012-08-08 19:55
Well, you can always call Larry Naylor 1.303.761.4759
in Centennial Colorado. Larry has been doing clarinet repair about as long as I have been alive. Ask them. But I think you might be better off going wtih the oil and letting the wood soak in and swell a bit, or wood epoxy with dark stain in it to blend (reads black) with the rest of the barrel. You'd have to open up the crack just a bit to get enough epoxy in there. I think if your rings are tight I wouldn't worry about taking them off as they are crimped on, and should be pretty air tight.
Naylor Woodwind Repair
Vernon
Jenewein Duduks Manufacturing & Research
www.duduk.us American made Duduks
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-08-08 22:50
Garth,
Unless you have a particular reason to remove the rings, leave them where they are. I suggest you don't use epoxy, it doesn't have the low viscosity and wicking characteristics that superglue has. If the crack goes all the way through, then apply the superglue from the outside and it will wick right through. If you are careful with your toothpick there's no reason it will make a mess, just a very narrow raised line of hardened glue, easy to remove. The tape is good, though. Epoxy works well if the crack is really open, but not for a hairline crack. If you do use epoxy, mix it in something like a plastic cup and then float the cup in hot water. This will thin the epoxy and make it easier to apply. Use the same toothpick method.
Vernon,
No doubt your intentions are good, but some of the advice you are offering is perhaps more enthusiastic than wise. The methods suggested by experienced repairers are offered because they are known to work. New ideas are always worth trying, but prove them to yourself before offering them to others as advice.
Tony F.
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Author: vljenewein
Date: 2012-08-09 00:11
The idea with epoxy and black stain is the answer I got from Naylor Woodwind Repair this afternoon on the phone. They suggested opening up the crack a bit to get it down in there better. They also suggested leaving the rings on and not messing with the rings. They thought epoxy worked a lot better than superglue for fixing a crack. Perhaps they thought it was a large crack. Larry Naylor has been a wood wind repairman for 56 years. I'm only 59. His ideas, as an expert, not mine as a newcomer. Just passing on what they told me. And they are the one that aid the repair is don on the outside, and not the inside.
About Larry Naylor
Vernon
Jenewein Duduks Manufacturing & Research
www.duduk.us American made Duduks
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