 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: PianistTurnedClarinetist
Date: 2012-08-01 19:33
Hi!
I have just been offered a Buffet R13 clarinet from 1961 (serial no. 69xxx) at what seems to be a very good price, far less than I'd expect it to cost. It's only $700 :D, which is not much more than a new YCL-250 at $600. According to the research I've done so far, it's a bargain, and I'm tempted to just dive in and buy it right away, but I can't help thinking I might have missed some important detail. Perhaps some major shortcomings this clarinet might have compared to more modern R13's (tuning issues maybe?). Apart from that, I'd love to hear someone's opinion on how a 1961 Buffet R13 would compare to the Selmer Series 9 that I'm currently borrowing.
The R13 is across the country, so I won't have a chance to try it before buying it. It's only been used for a half dozen years and has just "gathered dust" ever since. The seller assures me that it plays very well, there are no cracks in it and the pads were replaced a few years ago. He stresses the fact that it's from the Buffet "Golden Age", but I've found that people have very different opinions about exactly when that period started, and whether 1961 is included.
I usually play a Yamaha YCL-26 student clarinet (purchased for travels and rainy weather) and a Selmer Series 9 that I've borrowed. The Selmer could use some adjustments though, which I'm hesitant to pay for at the moment, since it's not my own, so I don't really know its full potential.
Thank you for reading this. I hope you can offer me some advice. Any advice is much appreciated 
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-08-01 21:39
This issue has been chewed over many times. See http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=227232&t=226017.
R13s from this era have, for me, the best tone and playing qualities ever. However, they're also famous for intonation problems.
I wouldn't buy any clarinet without playing it. You simply must have an unconditional right to return it for any reason, or for no reason. This is particularly true for older instruments, which had lots of variation from sample to sample.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BflatNH
Date: 2012-08-02 02:27
Take the trouble to test the intonation.
I have one from that era, and it has excellent intonation at least up to A6. But maybe or maybe not for that one. There is also some discussion about horns being 'blown out' due to bore distortions from playing or swabbing, etc. I'm not experienced enough to have run into that personally, but in case it exists you might want to play test it.
Good luck
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bill
Date: 2012-08-04 14:25
I bought my 1967 R13 on eBay. I asked a lot of questions, but (of course) couldn't play-test it with potential to return. I also bought my 1967 R13 "A" clarinet without a play test (from a classified ad, pre-ebay days).
If it's, say, $800 or so, it may be worth the risk. But higher than that, I agree with Ken: ask for a trial.
Also, ignore what any ebay seller (with one exception ... email me for name) says about the horn being "overhauled." If they jack up the price because they claim it's overhauled ... no deal.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John Peacock
Date: 2012-08-04 15:58
A 1961 R13 for $700 has to be a bargain, almost whatever the condition. The only real concern is if you can trust the seller to guarantee that it has no cracks. In that case, the worst that can happen is that you need to spend $200 or so on repadding, and then find you don't like it. At that point, you've still spent very little, and you can almost certainly then sell it on eBay for considerably more.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2012-08-10 16:52
Having been burned 2x with a '60's Buffet. There is NO WAY I'd ever buy one without a very thorough play-test.
Both had insurmountable intonation problems.
One, in addition, was so stuffy that it was like giving mouth-to-mouth to a mannikin
Take a pass on the "deal" if you can't get the seller to take it back if, for any reason, you dislike it.
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Donald Casadonte
Date: 2012-08-10 18:26
There is at least one dealer on eBay that I know to be of good repute. He overhauls all of the instruments (although only adequately - one must have the instrument overhauled, since he is a sax player and doesn't know the fine points of overhauling an instrument). I won't name him by name, but the original poster can e-mail me if he wants to contact him. His prices are usually about 3x what the original poster mentioned, so I doubt it is he, but I know this person will let you play-test the instrument.
Donald Casadonte
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2012-08-11 18:21
My guideline - never by an instrument without an option to return it, unless you are willing to get junk which might be of use only to a repairman needing spare parts.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
New and Used Buffet Clarinets
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: interd0g
Date: 2012-10-09 00:50
I played a 1960s R13 ( 7 ring model) since , - 1960s. Last few overhauls I have been told by repairers that it is not worth continuing.
I finally bought a Bliss ( I am no longer a serious contender ) and I was amazed at the ease of playing. By comparison the R13 feels like it has a sock stuffed up the bore. I should have done this 10 years ago. The Bliss feels like I am cheating.
Maybe a clarinet can blow out. There is nothing to see or measure, but it is a constipated blow throughout all registers.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2012-10-09 01:58
I bought an R-13 from 1987 in good condition. I play tested for two days before buying it for $900. After spending a few months with it, I noticed a few minor annoying issues including a hairline crack in the barrel. I repaired the crack with CA glue to the point that it can barely be seen, but there were inexplicable problems that I felt a professional could track down. I gave it to a local repairman who charged me $80 for a few corks, and two pads and minor adjustments. When I got it back I noticed no improvement. I decided to send it to Wesley Rice in Maryland. The cost to be included shipping back and forth. All together my experience with Mr. Rice cost me less than $250. He changed a few pads with Valentino synthetic, replaced one or two of the upper cork pads, tightened loose linkage with nylon spacers, did what he calls a spring adjustment which involves changing springs and altering their contact points. He also repaired a tone hole and key height. The difference is very obvious. The feel of the keys is much better and tighter and feels exact like a new horn might feel. Their is a cleaner richer tone and an annoying buzz on some notes is gone. This Buffet was never horrible but now it is improved. A simple blown pad I might give to any repairman I trusted, but a problem that is hard to track down I will only give to someone with insight like Mr. Rice.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-10-09 05:18
Test it. A must. Lots of them are still around.
They are like reeds, maybe one out of 10 will play, one out of 20 will be concert level.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-10-09 15:27
While it would be ideal to be able to play-test it, the fact is that at the price you mention you'd have no problem in getting your money back if it didn't work out. You might even make a bit on it. In your position I'd go for it, but I'm a risk-taker so be your own judge.
Tony F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jimmycmcdonnell
Date: 2012-10-09 20:59
Hi,
I purchased a 1973 R13 on eBay 6 years ago for $1100. I ended up paying an additional $400 for an overhaul. But hey, I love it.
Always wondered whether a new R13 would have been a better deal for me. I went in to try a couple out last week - they sounded like penny whistles compared to the 1972.
Ask to try and if it's pretty ok you may have a bargain.
Jimmy
Post Edited (2012-10-09 21:05)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-10-09 22:27
The "Golden Age" was the 90K series not the 60K. It's always chancey to buy an old clarinet without a trial playing it. The bore could have change and it could be out of tune, stuffy, have some bad notes etc. There's more chance something can be wrong than right. Buyer beware.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
