 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: shuaiclar
Date: 2012-05-21 23:11
Hi all,
I have a pair Selmer Signatures on trial (that I selected from a larger bunch). I have a few questions about them, and I was wondering if some people out there who play Signatures could help me out a little.
On both clarinets, the full B (middle of the staff) feels pretty resistant/stuffy and it is pretty low. It is my understanding that this is pretty common for them, but how do you fix it? I'm not to thrilled about the idea of paying a ton to have a vent of some sort built in.
Also, the clarion G# (top of the staff), on the B-flat in particular, is almost 20 cents sharper than other notes. I also checked this out with my other friends looking into the Signatures, and found the same problem with theirs. I know nothing about clarinet mechanics and how it all works, but is there a way to lower the pitch a little?
Lastly, I find that the 2nd ledger-line above the staff C# is very resistant on the A, and it sounds at a much quieter dynamic than the notes that surround it. (upper clarion and altissimo). I haven't tried it on another Signature yet, so it might be just this one, but does anyone else experience this?
I guess that wasn't actually lastly... :P
Coming from R13's I'm having a little difficulty finding a mouthpiece that feels and sounds comfortable on the Selmers. The Selmers are definitely much more resistant than my Buffets. I use an M13lyre on my R13's, and so far I find that my B40lyre works the best with the Signatures. I don't like it, however, because I think it encourages/allows me to develop a biting habit more than my M13lyre did. It also slightly lowers the pitch a little, so that I end up sitting right at or slightly below 440 when pushed in all the way. Any other mouthpiece recommendations would be appreciated :D
Overall... I can definitely say I am so far a huge fan of these Signatures. The depth of sound that I can achieve is pretty incredible compared to my Buffet, and in general, the intonation is much more even.
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Author: Joe Bloke
Date: 2012-05-22 00:16
Here's what a Selmer dealer, known for their technical/repair expertise, who is also an authorized Selmer Pro shop, has to say about the Signature:
"Professionals worldwide praise the Signature clarinet for its depth of sound and uniformly dark, clear tone quality in all ranges and dynamics. Playing with slightly more resistance than the other Selmer clarinets, the Signature requires a more efficient and free-blowing set-up. After adjusting and balancing your mouthpiece and reed you will find even the softest pianissimos respond with less embouchure effort."
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-05-22 01:58
I use a Selmer Signature Bb, but I can't speak for the A, I stil use my old but incredible Buffet A. I choose the Selmer 4 years ago when looking for a new Buffet Bb, tried the Selmers and couldn't believe the rich and even tone quality. I solved the intonation problems you have this way. First off I use a Backun Bell which I liked regardless of the B being flat, I'm a Backun fan. I sent the bell back to Morrie and asked him what he could do to raise the pitch of the middle B so he drilled a vent hole in the bell and it helped. I drilled it a bit more and it really helped. Once the hole was drilled I felt I could open it a bit my self, no problem.
As far as the G# being sharp, I lowered the key a bit and put tape in the upper half of the tone hole. Actually I ended up putting tape in a few tone holes in the upper joint as the year went on to even up the pitch in general. I've had to do that on my Buffets too on several tone holes over the years, nothing new.
The only problem I have now is that my very high F# is very flat, as is on all clarinets, so I usually use one of the side key fingerings or the sliver key. I usually have to raise the high E and F a bit using either the sliver key or side G# throat key for the high E and I had to slightly switch the regular fingering I use for the highest G#. I have all those alternate fingerings on my chart on my website. I love the tone quality I get from the Selmer so much that it's worth it to me to make these small adjustment. ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: shuaiclar
Date: 2012-05-22 04:11
Joe - I can definitely agree with that entire quote. So far I'm definitely having much better luck with a more open set-up
Thank you Mr. Palanker for a super helpful answer! My teacher actually lowered the C#/G# key this evening and the G# is right on now! As far as the B goes - the vent seems to only way to fix it. Is it expensive to have that work done? And what kind of benefits would the Backun bell bring?
Thanks!!
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2012-05-22 04:21
Taping tone holes is common place as pitch is impossible to be spot on because every player plays a horn differently. Check to make sure that the twelfths are consistent.
I told myself that my next set of clarinets were going to be Selmer Signatures. I played on them for over an hour at Midwest this past year and I loved them as I have every year. I really regret that I didn't purchase the Signature's back in 2002 when I was in the market for a new set then. They were my favorite horns until I tried the new Yamaha CSGII clarinets at Midwest.
I think Dave's comment about the CSG being the solution is spot on for a few of many reasons:
- The CSGII's had better intonation, even with my 13 Series M30 which is supposed to be flat.
- The option of Gold (Hamilton) plated keys is stunning and does make a difference.
- Low E/F correction mechanism controlled the right thumb. I can't tell you how instrumental this mechanism is. It is so liberating to play low E and F's as loud as I need to in important spots in the repertoire.
- Best placement of the auxiliary Eb key yet. It doesn't get in the way at all.
- No need for any sort of "servicing" as with Buffets and others. These clarinets were near perfectly set up. They have a strategic combination of cork, synthetic and white leather pads.
- The tone quality is stunning. I have gotten unsolicited comments of praise from conductors, fellow orchestral and chamber musicians and beyond.
There clarinets are the most handmade, well thought out perfect clarinets. I would have gladly paid $17,000 for this set. Did I mention they are also a thousand dollars less per horn than the Selmer Signatures?
I see that you're at DePaul. I'm actually located in Lakeview. Feel free to contact me if you were interested in trying my horns out.
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Author: Joe Bloke
Date: 2012-05-22 13:21
@shuaiclar
Here's an old thread you may want to read before you close the deal on that Selmer. Nothing about Selmer's but, some interesting discussion about the Yamaha CSG's:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=226128&t=226128
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-05-22 17:09
The B shouldn't be stuffy at all. The G# should not be sharp. Have a really good repairman go over the horn real well, because it sounds like very minor leaks. It doesn't take much to make the B stuffy.
The G# is commonly too open, and just needs to be closed up a tad.
Once you've made these adjustments try different barrels. These are nice horns.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2012-05-24 02:44)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-05-24 00:16
I've found that the Backun bells have made going from the throat tones to the break much more even for some reason I don't understand it but it also makes my high B and C more focused and warm. It is probably is slightly different for everyone on different clarinets. You could have someone drill a hole in your Selmer bell for starters, that shouldn't be to expensive. Then you line up the hole with the low tone holes. Have the hole drilled ablout half way in the bell. Good luck, ESP
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Author: shuaiclar
Date: 2012-05-29 00:38
SO. I did end up buying the Signatures. This past week. I got a shorter barrel for them, which seemed to allow me to play more in tune with everyone else. I will probably have to get a vent made in the bell.. but I think this was definitely a good choice for me. I used the new clarinets in a studio class and wind symphony concert a couple days ago and I've gotten more compliments about my playing/sound than EVER. very cool. :D
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Author: shuaiclar
Date: 2012-05-29 00:40
BTW - Thank you all for the ideas!
I would look into a Yamaha, if it weren't so hard to get my hands on a large amount to pick from. and if my teacher didn't discourage me from buying one so much :P
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2012-05-29 12:11
Try many before buy. See Snavely's article in
The
Clarinet on how to buy an artist clarinet.
richard smith
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Author: xarkon
Date: 2012-05-29 18:57
On pitch: I have a pair of Signatures myself. They will not play in tune with, for example, a 13 Series Vandoren - instead, they will play flat. The regular Vandorens are fine. I have used an M15 with good results, but a Brad Behn MP (from Zinner blank) works well for me.
I do have shorter barrels as well. However, I have had to use these only in community band in cold rooms. At normal temps, the instrument plays well in tune at A440.
Dave
Post Edited (2012-05-30 02:12)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2012-05-29 22:39
Quote:
I do have shorter barrels as well. However, I have had to use these only in community band in very warm rooms.
Maybe I have misunderstood this posting. Why would one use a shorter barrel in a WARM room?
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Author: xarkon
Date: 2012-05-30 02:11
You haven't misunderstood what I wrote. However, I had complete brain failure when I wrote it. It should have said "in very COLD rooms."
Which, in Colorado, are not uncommon for large rehearsal spaces in the winter.
Dave
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Author: Ed
Date: 2012-05-30 02:43
No problem. Maybe the altitude is getting to you!
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