 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Vova Doob(UA)
Date: 2012-05-19 10:32
Hi! Can anyone compare Backun Protégé clarinet with buffet e11, r13, BC series and professional models, what clarinet is better. Thank You!
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2012-05-19 15:28
I've played the protypes of the protege clarinets. The prototypes are easily in the top 5 clarinets I've played. The production versions will be better than that. I play Backun I sell Backun products. I sell them because I use them. When these hit the street you will not be able to buy better clarinet than this for under $5000.00. So I liked them so much I've ordered 10 of them.
Tom Puwalski. Backun Artist and owner of Clarinet Gourmet.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2012-05-19 20:00
Tom Puwalski wrote:
> When these hit the street you will not be able to buy better
> clarinet than this for under $5000.00.
I hope you're right. It'll be nice to see the Buffet Mafia taken down a peg or two.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2012-05-20 04:27
Buffet Mafia. Yup. A company that produces good instruments at prices commensurate with the competition.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2012-05-20 04:31
Vova Doob, your question is confusing because you've listed clarinets that are fighting for different markets and have different levels of quality. Buffet considers the Tosca to be their best clarinet, the R13 their entry-level professional model and the E11 their student model.
The Protege is better than a Buffet E11. Beyond that, it is personal preference whether it is on the same level or better than an R13.
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2012-05-20 08:53
Hmm, in my own opinion, I wouldn't say that the R13 is an entry level pro model even with the Festival, Prestige, and Toscas around. Many top level pro players are still using R13s more so than the Tosca, at least from what I observe. Meh, to each their own.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2012-05-20 14:31
To generalize, some artist quality clarinets are produced by all the established names. Finding an artist quality one is a matter of many trials, or perhaps good fortune. The experiences of Gigliotti, Portnoy, and others of their prestige, in finding an artist quality one, are enlightening.
richard smith
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-05-20 15:21
For what it's worth, Kalmen Opperman worked his magic exclusively on plain vanilla R13s. Mine play better than anything else I've tried. He also set up a 1929 Buffet C clarinet (2525) that he said was one of the best clarinets he'd ever played. If it matters, I agree.
Ken Shaw
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2012-05-20 16:22
I did say that those were the products as Buffet considers them. I prefer to play R13s, but I also don't think it's unreasonable to say that Buffet considers the Tosca their premier instrument. That is why I avoided making a comparison of those instruments directly.
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Author: Joe Bloke
Date: 2012-05-20 17:42
Backun Musical, on their website, classifies the Protege's as "semi-professional clarinets."
On 04/27/12, Morrie Backun posted (in part): ".......we have also started building the more affordable Protege, which is our own unique design at a very affordable price and available through the Backun dealer/distribution network. This instrument is in the 2000 dollar price range."
Currently an R-13 (nickel keys) can be had for around $3,000 (USD).
So, if you take the base Protege at approximately $2k, then choose to upscale the bell (Backun MoBa $675) and barrel (Backun MoBa $275), you're at $2,950 (USD). Pricing might tell us something?
I don't play a R-13 but, I still haven't heard a clarinet (in production today) that achieves, in the right hands, the rich dark tone of a R-13 (to my ear). Can't wait to hear the Protege!
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2012-05-20 17:57
Pricing never tells you anything, particularly between manufacturers.
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Author: Joe Bloke
Date: 2012-05-20 18:26
@ J. J.
So, let me see if I understand your comment: "Pricing never tells you anything, particularly between manufacturers."
Is that just as it pertains to clarinets? Or, "manufacturers" in general?
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2012-05-20 19:40
Sorry, I wasn't terribly clear. What I meant was that pricing is a result of so many different factors including overhead, recouping development costs, labor, materials, economies of scale, etc. And all of that is before you factor in the strategic plans of how to structure and differentiate your lineup so that consumers know what they're" supposed" to buy. It doesn't always relate to quality and is almost never proportional to value as you rise up the pricing list.
Now, imagine making that comparison between manufacturers of instruments. With different designs, cost structures, financial goals, etc. you can't expect that the price is a good indicator of quality between the products of different companies.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2012-05-20 22:33
I'll say this about the Protege; to get a clarinet at its likely price with that cocobolo wood, lightweight and all, would seem to be a cool deal if it's a quality production instrument.
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2012-05-20 23:04
The Cocobolo protege is an awesome clarinet. Personally I think the argument about what is or isn't a pro clarinet is irrelevant until one discusses what is a professional clarinetist? I would bet that 90% of those who read and respond on this list are not "professionals", I define professional by having a check (money) from someone who tells you where and what to play and how much of your artistic soul they need to extract. The rest are "Amateurs", Those who do it because they love it. A great reason if you as me.
I think a better way to look at Protege and Antigua by Backun clarinets is they are "production" instruments. That means made in factories to exact specifications of designers. The Backun and Moba instruments are built by limited number of highly trained "techs". I think the protege and Antigua are some of the best "production" instruments out there.
That's my opinion, but then I play them and sell them.
Tom Puwalski, Former principal clarinetist with US. Army Field Band, Author of "The Clarinetist Guide To Klezmer", Backun performing Artist, owner of Clarinet Gourmet and proud owner of Backun clarinet MB 123.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-05-21 03:52
>> I define professional by having a check (money) from someone who tells you where and what to play and how much of your artistic soul they need to extract. <<
So if someone is paying you to play whatever you want, without telling you what you play, you are not a professional...? Of course some "professionals" (by your definition) are lousy players, so what does it really mean anyway...
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Author: ramsa
Date: 2012-05-22 20:41
I had a boss, back in the day, explain to me the definition of a professional: " A person who knows when what they do is good enough..."
I thought he was describing a "hack".
Upon further thought and years, he might have been right all along.
;)
This is a genuine signature.
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Author: Clarnetamaphone
Date: 2012-05-23 16:44
http://ridenourclarinetproducts.com/pricing.html
I very rarely post anything on this board or any other but as much of this thread pertains to the pricing of clarinets I thought this article by Tom Ridenour, would be relevant to the conversation.
Disclaimer: Posted by Ted Ridenour employee of Ridenour Clarinet Products
Ridenour Clarinet Products
1-888-AKUSTIK
ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: Lorenzo_M
Date: 2012-09-20 00:31
I just tried these a few days ago at the innoledy showroom, and was blown away - especially after I found out the price! I wasn't too impressed with the barrel and bell (as they were too free blowing for me) but when tempered with the resistance of the MoBa combo...it's a fantastic instrument. Tom Puwalski mentioned that you'll be hard pressed to find an instrument under $5000 that plays this well, and I'm inclined to agree.
Maybe a Buffet Festival, or REALLY good stock R13, but you'd have to try a LOT of them, while the Proteges were promised to be very consistent. We'll see in November, but I was told there would be a few available in NYC when these are in production. I really enjoyed playing a Cocobolo MoBa clarinet, so I'm looking forward to seeing if a Protege in Cocobolo with MoBa barrel and bell can satisfy my jones for a Cocobolo clarinet.
I will say this - though the Protege is oft compared to an R13, and designated as the R13 killer, etc...it is NOT an R13. Any more than the Leblanc Concerto was an R13 or the Selmer 10G was an R13. I think if you specifically want an R13, you still have to buy one. It is what it is, and to buy a non-R13 and expect it to sound like an R13 is silly IMO....that's just a setup for disappointment. Rest assured, you will sound like you regardless of what you use.
And I have no vested interest in Backun. I don't play Backun products. Come November...maybe I will Maybe sooner, as the bells really did wonders for my current setup.
Anyway, I feel like some sort of evangelical, spreading the gospel of Backun around...but I truly was that impressed with this instrument!
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