 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-04-20 20:12
With a name like that, it must be made in Asia ("under the supervision of Chinese technicians").
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2009-04-20 20:31
Looks like they are responding to the Bliss clarinet.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2009-04-20 22:03
Brenda Siewert wrote:
> The Bliss is not a wood instrument.
Yes it is, there are 3 models one all plastic, one plastic body/bell wooden barrel and one all wood.
If oyu look at the add from leblanc, it's the same case a cool look and an entry level clarinet in aout the same price range as the e11
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-04-20 22:25
Do you reckon the B12 is going to be made in France as well?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-04-20 23:29
"The Buffet website says that the new E11 pillars are glued onto the body. (not screwed in)".
Heck yeah, that's going to make it hard to work on the clarinet a few years down the road. Very often it's advisable or even necessary to remove (or at least turn) a post in order to replace a broken needle spring, for example.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2009-04-21 01:29
Karnack the Magnificient predicts next fall, when these start showing up in the hands of 11 year old beginning students, we'll see pillars snap off when clumsy hands drop them...
It will be interesting to see how they hold up after 1,3,5 or more years of service.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2009-04-21 03:54
Ah, I forgot. The Bliss does come in a Grenadilla model. Sorry about that. I stand corrected.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-04-21 03:55
ActuallyI wouldn't say it is common to need to remove or turn a post. Sure it's needed sometimes, but just not so often. But still threaded posts is the best method. I'm guessing they did it because it is cheaper to make. Unless something in the method they drill the posts etc. changed, then the springs are installed at the factory after the posts are in place.
But many times (on several forums too) people recommend clarinets which don't have threaded posts. Maybe people expect more from the price of an E11 but... how much does it cost anyway?
But unlike some (plastic) models without threaded posts, where they are just "stuck" into the plastic and not as easy to fix if they are loose, the new E11 has a system that is without a screw, still holds the posts in positions. An extra piece connected to the post gets into a cut part in the wood. They can still get loose eventually, but it seem like it's much easier to fix than those plastic models with "stuck" posts.
IMO the biggest problem with the new E11 France is the position of the throat A key, which is too far from the first ring key and isn't comfortable.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-04-21 04:23
David Spiegelthal wrote:
<<With a name like that, it must be made in Asia ("under the supervision of Chinese technicians").>>
Weren't the old student-model Buffets made in Germany? Perhaps that would explain why these new ones are called "E-11 France."
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-04-21 11:05
Yes, the old student-model Buffets were made in Germany by Schreiber.
All joking aside, does anyone know where this new Buffet model is actually made?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-04-21 12:00
Probably in the former Leblanc factory.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-04-21 12:34
David Spiegelthal wrote:
> All joking aside, does anyone know where this new Buffet
> model is actually made?
From the website:
"...Bringing all the production of the E11 FRANCE in-house is a great plus for Buffet Crampon. It allows us to control quality, acoustics and the finish.
Production is carried out between the parent company and the MIL( Manufacture d’Instruments de La couture) factory which we bought last July, by craftsmen with long experience in the manufacture of clarinets, guaranteeing us quality in production. We are planning to concentrate production of our student clarinets in this unit, and use the original site at Mantes La Ville for the production for high end instruments..."
...GBK
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-04-21 13:19
Why the Laquer finish? ( see repairers section of the website by Buffet)
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-04-21 13:34
The more recent Schreiber E11s are painted with black paint, but it's strange that Buffet mention they're made from unstained grenadilla yet they're lacquered - I know staining and lacquering are two different things, but both these finishing processes are unnecessary in my opinion.
Surely polishing the joints is easy enough to do and leaves a much better finish, and enough not to warrant a lacquered finish that is a pain to touch up if it does get damaged.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-04-21 14:36
> Surely polishing the joints is easy enough to do and leaves a much better
> finish, and enough not to warrant a lacquered finish that is a pain to touch
> up if it does get damaged.
Maybe they were trying their best to make the wood appear like plastic. (as a variation of the "brushed plastic with wood-like appearance" theme) ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-04-21 14:45
There's something in that - it's desireable to have wooden instruments polished up to a bright shiny finish whereas it's more desireable to have plastic instruments with a matt finish.
When Howarth made plastic bodied clarinets, some people didn't like the shiny finish (which takes a lot of time and effort to do), yet the wooden ones were just as shiny after polishing (and far easier to get a good finish on them).
You can please some people some of the time, but you can't please all people all of the time.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Avie
Date: 2009-04-21 22:35
Thanks for the link on the E11 GBK.
I especially enjoyed the way Buffet machined and perfectly blended the raised wood dia's into the clarinet body. I also thought it was overall a little expensive and was concerned with how much the pressed in posts would drive up the repair cost's later on.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2009-04-22 17:05
I suspect the e11 Buffets are made with low grade quality wood that would otherwise not be used. On top of that part of the way they are constructed makes you wonder what Buffet is up to..they are so resistant I find. I avoid them at all cost..just not a great fan of this model..whether or not the e11france has any improvement we won't know till we see it.
David Dow
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Author: d4dabbler
Date: 2009-05-01 14:50
I'm a Gemstone employee and we're distributing Schreiber in the US now. I've personally (not speaking as a representative of my employer) observed really strong acceptance of the Schreiber product. Good parts availability, too.
Post Edited (2009-05-01 15:09)
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Author: chorusgirl
Date: 2009-05-01 18:59
Clarnibass asked:
"Maybe people expect more from the price of an E11 but... how much does it cost anyway?"
According to WWBW, currently an E11 is $1645.00. It is not clear if it is the new E11 France or not.
I'm stunned at the price - we bought my older son an E11 in late 2005, and paid just about $700 for it. Why would the price have more than doubled?
I am assuming that his was made in Germany, based on the discussion here.
Curiously, I've been using his for a bit now that I've been thrust into teaching band lessons at school and find it far more resistant than my other son's new Lyrique that we just purchased about two months ago.
As for the posts being glued on, I can only comment as a middle school band teacher (sort of - being thrust into it, it's sure a lot of fun but what do I know about teaching band? I'm a chorus person!!!) - kids drop and bang these instruments all the time. I sure hope the glue is some super-duper incredible stuff!!
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-05-02 04:17
>> According to WWBW, currently an E11 is $1645.00. It is not clear if it is the new E11 France or not. <<
To clarify, I was asking how much the new E11 France costs, not other E11s.
>> I am assuming that his was made in Germany, based on the discussion here. <<
I'm pretty sure that unless it's the new E11 France, it was made in Germany. It should say "Made in Germany" on the clarinet if it was.
I just checked their website and there is no Bb E11 anymore except the new France model. There are E11s in A, Eb and C and I'm wondering where those are made. Does Schreiber still still make clarinets for Buffet? If I remember correct the current B10 and B12 are no longer made there.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-05-02 06:16
In Buffet's catalogue from 2004 it has an E11 Eb clarinet pictured with the full Buffet logo on each section - with 'Made in France' under the logos, so I assume the E11 Eb (and possibly the E11 C) was made in France.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: thomas.b
Date: 2009-05-02 08:24
when I visited the Schreiber Factory ( I live 20 minutes away from it) some years ago they told me that most of the clarinet they produce were Boehm clarinets ( E11 and co...) . Now Schreiber and Buffet are divorced: Buffet announces a new E11 and Schreiber introduces a bunch of Boehm clarinets...either Buffet labels some E13s as E11 und Schreiber produces some nearly-E11 or both companies have additional development efforts which seems difficult in the actual economic situation...
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-05-02 15:16
Meanwhile, the Chinese factories are spooling up and standing by to eat the lunch of the overpriced European makers....................
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Author: mamashep
Date: 2009-06-07 03:07
I had a couple of students looking for new instruments recently, and the music dealer (an exclusive Leblanc dealer in our state) that I work with led me down this path of reasoning:
1) Leblanc is no longer producing the Opus or Concerto II lines in favor of the higher end "student" model clarinets.
2) Leblanc recently sold a factory in France to Buffet.
3) Buffet announces the new E11France.
Without actually saying it, but with a pretty heavy "wink, wink, you know what I mean," the dealer pretty much said the Opus/Concerto II factory was being retooled and used to produce the new E11s.
Unsubstantiated rumors? Yes.
Interesting? Absolutely!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-06-07 22:54
"I wonder if there's lead in the Chinese Clarinets?"
I wouldn't be at all surprised, and maybe other toxic substances as well.
Do musical instruments not warrant being tested for toxins as toys would normally be?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: MrJozzerBeast
Date: 2012-05-12 12:39
I've just ordered a buffet e11 france A clarinet to complement my older Buffet e11 german made model. Very excited! The unstained African blackwood, ringless bell... I'm drooling!
In a few years I'll be upgrading my Bb to a professional model...more drool!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-05-12 14:40
The wood is lacquered on these clarinets as opposed to being polished.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: CuriousClarinet
Date: 2012-05-12 19:51
You should post a review of the instrument when you recieve it. I own an German E11 A clarinet and I'm curious how the two instruments compare. I've never played an E11 France in any key, but I've heard they tend to play more similar to leblancs then german E11's. It'd be interesting to know what you think.
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Author: Trevor M
Date: 2012-05-22 05:24
Buffet's clarinet line is really weird and, in my opinion, overpopulated right now. They're touting the E11 Germany as an 'intermediate' horn and the E11 France as a 'semi-professional' one. I can't even remember what's supposed to be good or bad about the 'Limite'... but who needs that many flavors of mid-range clarinet?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-05-22 06:01
I never really saw the point of the C12 and still don't, even if it's a good clarinet in its own right. Most players would go straight from an E11 or E13 to an R13/RC.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-05-23 14:07)
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-05-23 00:04
Very, very much agreed, Trevor!
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-05-23 21:56
R13 pillars are of the two standard types used on wooden instruments - the screw in type which has an integral thread on the pillar which screws into prepared holes in the joint and also the anchored type with the flanged base which is held in place with a single wood screw.
Artley pillars have splines and are ultrasonically mounted into the plastic joints - you can't use this type on wood as they'll probably loosen and drop out after some time.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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