 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ayrib
Date: 2012-04-19 12:01
Hi all just looking for some advice as I have run out of cork grease and would like to know if it is safe to use Petroleum Jelly otherwise known as Vaseline
to lubricate the cork as I have some in the house at present or should I wait until I purchase some cork grease.
I am sure I have read that it is OK to use Vaseline but somewhere else I read that it is a no no.
I have a nice Yamaha wooden clarinet and do not want to ruin it or my warranty.
Any suggestions most welcome.
Thanks
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Author: BobD
Date: 2012-04-19 12:55
The prevailing belief is that petroleum products are not good. You might be better off using butter or olive oil rather than "going dry" until you can get some cork grease.
Bob Draznik
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2012-04-19 13:10
The issue with petroleum-based greases is that they will often soak into the tenon corks. This degrades the cork as well as the adhesive holding it on.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-04-19 13:27
How dry are the corks at present and how frequently do you normally grease them?
Instead of buying the lipstick-style cork grease (which isn't great), you should get a better quality cork grease that's heavy and you don't have to use too much of it each time. I recommend La Tromba slide and cork grease which comes in a 15g black plastic tub which will last you for years.
http://www.thomann.de/gb/la_tromba_grease_and_oil.html
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-04-19 13:41)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-04-19 13:43
Wait for cork grease............ don't mess up you Yamaha !!!
I've personally been fine over the years with the standard white stuff (usually in the Chap-stick container). My problem with the slimier stuff if that it will build up residue in the case and on any cloth you have in there that comes in contact with it.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-04-19 14:23
Don't use vaseline, it can degrade the adhesive on the joint corks.
Tony F.
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Author: ayrib
Date: 2012-04-19 14:28
A big thanks to you all for your input.
I think I can take it as read that cork grease is the way to go and leave the
Vaseline in the container for good as far as the clarinet is concerned.
I am really glad I asked the more experienced player's advice.
What a great forum this is there is always someone that knows the answer to your question.
Once again many thnaks for your time and input.
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Author: TianL
Date: 2012-04-19 14:39
i've always used the doctor's product. i don't know why you would try to find replacement for cork grease.. they are like $2 for a year!
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Author: Zenia
Date: 2012-04-19 17:22
Chris P. re: La Tromba
Do you know if this product would be better than using pure lanolin? My tech prefers lanolin because it's not petroleum based and it's available here (Canada)
in pharmacies. It's also inexpensive here and lasts forever but I'd be curious to
compare it to La Tromba which I'm not sure is available here.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2012-04-19 21:32
Are you sure that e.g. La Tromba doesn't contain vaseline? They don't declare the contents. I use vaseline and till now don't see any degrading of the tenon cork or the contact adhesive I use. And what if? Replacing the corks after a few years would't be a major issue.
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2012-04-19 21:38
I just had all my tenon corks replaced two months ago. If I don't use cork grease every two or three sessions, it becomes more difficult than I would like to get everything to fit together. The problem with assembling a clarinet is that there are no easy and safe positions for your hands and if you grab the wrong thing you can bend it. Will everything start to loosen up in say another six months?
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-04-19 21:52
I've used La Tromba on all my instruments for well over twenty years now with no problem. My bari sax still has the original crook cork it had when I bought it back in 1990 and that's the instrument I've played most, so I swear by La Tromba. La Tromba is a heavy density grease (like axle grease) so doesn't soak into the cork like thinner greases - it's also synthetic so won't go rancid like tallow, lamb wax, turkey seepage or other forms of animal grease.
When assembling your clarinet, you should hold the top joint in your left hand palm upwards so your fingers wrap around it holding the rings closed - this raises the linkage and while the rings are held closed, you won't bend anything.
The lower joint is held in your right hand palm downwards so your thumb closes the two largest pad cups and your fingers wrap around to grip it - then you can assemble it safely without any danger of anything getting bent.
If the corks are supple enough, they should ease off pretty soon. If the joints bind up solid during assembly or won't come apart after playing, then it's not the corks that are the problem but the tenons themselves as the tenon rings are binding in the socket. No amount of grease will make them any better so you're best having the tenon rings skimmed which removes only a tiny amount of wood so they no longer bind nor wobble, so you're best getting this done by a competent repairer.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-04-19 23:00
Go to the local music store and buy a new tube! Sorry to sound like an a'^, but even if you order it locally on a music store on the net you should be back in business in a day or 2.
If you are located in the US I'll send you a few sticks.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2012-04-19 23:01)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-04-20 05:07
I don't know if anyone has proof that vaseline will ruin anything, but I've seen enough "spinners" (thoe corks that are still ok but lost all glue) and failed tenon corks that I consider the vaseline probably had something to do with it. AFAIK the vaseline will definitely not damage the clarinet itself, but will just more likely make the tenon cork fail sooner than it would have otherwise. I suspect some cork greases do the same, usually the no-name (or name) types that just say cork grease, etc.
My favorite cork grease is Alisyn, inspite of their poor package. I found it doesn't damage the cork/glue and I think it has the best "feel", more like a cream, significantly less greasy than others, so nicer to smear with your fingers. A lipstick tube is more comfortable to use IMO and I like the doctor's natural cork grease for that (not his synthetic which I don't like at all, eventhough it's made from the same basic product as Alisyn AFAIK).
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-04-20 08:39
I think there are tenon cork glues that are more sensitive to vaseline (or other kinds of cork grease) than others. Not all impact glues are made alike, and (insert deity) only knows what has been used in those older specimen we occasionally see with failing corks.
One thing about the "lipstick" vs "finger" application method... I think it's best to give the final smear with your finger even if you're using a grease stick. Else when you assemble the instrument you're just pushing the grease away where it'd ooze out and grease your swab or the lining of the case.
PS I'm using La Tromba as well. Besides its other qualities I like the scent.
--
Ben
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Author: greenslater
Date: 2012-04-20 09:00
Sorry if this is a little off topic but on period instruments that have thread wrapped tenons what would you recommend? I've been using Vaseline (I use cork grease on cork) but would it cause deteriation of the thread wrapping?
Thanks
Brad
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-04-20 09:49
>> I think there are tenon cork glues that are more sensitive to vaseline (or other kinds of cork grease) than others. Not all impact glues are made alike, and (insert deity) only knows what has been used in those older specimen we occasionally see with failing corks. <<
I agree, but I see a certain % of clarinets with "spinners" or failing corks with vaseline and/or the cheap no-name grease in the case as opposed to the % of failed corks from those who use good cork grease. It's not a proof, but it's enough that I consider it statistically significant to recommend certain types of greases over others (or at least what not to use).
>> One thing about the "lipstick" vs "finger" application method... I think it's best to give the final smear with your finger even if you're using a grease stick. <<
I agree. Fingers smear it much better on the cork. Just smearing with the lipstick tube and assembling can have most of the grease removed. But most prefer the lipstick tube regardless. I think La Tromba is also available in a lipstick tube.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-04-20 10:30
If you've got threaded tenons, you can use beeswax to seal the thread (if the thread isn't waxed) and then any heavy duty grease will be fine.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JonTheReeds
Date: 2012-04-20 10:33
I recently had some work done on my clarinet and the repairer gave me a crash course in assembling, taking apart and greasing a clarinet. He made it clear that the main reason for greasing is to make it easy to adjust the position of the different parts without putting too much pressure on the keywork
--------------------------------------
The older I get, the better I was
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Author: BobD
Date: 2012-04-20 22:06
Precisely, Jon. In past years lard, tallow and anything slippery was used but the first two tended to get smelly after awhile. In today's world one could buy a one pound can of Crisco and be able to grease all the clarinet corks in the U.S. The little lipstick tubes are easy to refill. No reason for anyone to get concerned about exactly what to use, after all cork replacement is no big deal.
Bob Draznik
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Author: natsfan
Date: 2012-04-21 01:04
Cork grease is great because not only can you lubricate the cork itself, but you can use it to clean the cork. Simply apply a LOT of cork grease to the joint, and then with a paper towel, firmly hold and tightly turn the paper towel. You will notice all kinds of dirt and filth will be removed from the cork, thus making it easier to assemble in the future.
Do this at least once every two months.
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Author: TJTG
Date: 2012-04-22 02:54
Has anybody used Ridenour's corkgrease? Or Do you even know what the base is (petroleum/natural)? I like the stuff, but I feel like I apply it 200% more of the time over my previous 'cheap stuff'.
I will say it sometimes works very well. I'm just curious.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-04-22 05:54
>> Has anybody used Ridenour's corkgrease? <<
Do you mean the Ultimax cork grease? I've tried it and dismissed it because I consider it too sticky.
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Author: UB
Date: 2012-09-22 02:39
I use Ultimax and have had great success with it. I love the smooth action from the joints when applied. I highly recommend it. Here's the advertisement from the web:
Ultimax Cork Lubricant is the perfect cork grease. Ultimax lubricants are safe and inert, meaning they will not break down adhesives like those that hold cork to the instrument. Ultimax Cork Lubricant is also safe for use on hard rubber and wood, it will not damage wooden clarinet bodies or hard rubber mouthpieces. More than just being safe, Ultimax Cork Lubricant holds moisture in the cork keeping the cork soft and pliable. This allows cork to last longer and retain its shape, enabling it to function more effectively.
The Ultimax lubricating system takes the guess work out of lubricating woodwind instruments. a complete system of synthetic lubricants designed to work together, Ultimax lubricants are safe for use on all woodwinds because they will not react with each other or any part of your instrument.
Ultimax will not break down or evaporate
Ultimax clings to metal surfaces
Ultimax is safe for use with all adhesives
Ultimax is safe for use around hard rubber
Ultimax retains its viscosity from -80? to +300?!
Your Instrument Deserves the Best!
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2012-09-22 08:47
A True Story:
Jerry Hoedema (of blessed memory) did instrument repairs out of his home in Ypsilanti, MI, and once overhauled a clarinet for me. When I picked it up, I realized he hadn't greased the corks and was doing so myself, when he gave me the oddest look.
It turned out that, years before, he had overhauled a clarinet for someone in the Detroit Symphony, who was livid when he found out his new corks had been greased. This gentleman made Jerry replace the brand new, lightly greased corks. He said that cork grease degrades corks, and that they lasted much longer when lubricated with petroleum jelly. So, oddly ever after, Jerry never greased new corks until he found out the customer's preference.
My response was there was one of two things happening. Perhaps he was lubricating the corks too liberally. Or, perhaps he was going too long between overhauls.
Corks do fail, but are inexpensive. Your Results May Vary.
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