 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-01-22 05:44
As I was swabbing my clarinet, I noticed a well defined crack in the upper joint of my beloved Tosca... Extends about an inch and a half from the 2nd to highest side trill key tone hole... Yes, goes into the tone hole, but I can't see it at all from the inside of the bore, so I'm guessing it could be worse, since it plays and seals fine (for now).
My question is this-- I will not be able to get it in for repair until Monday morning. It is very cold and dry here in Illinois. What should I do with it until then to stop the crack from getting worse? Obviously not play on it, but should I put it in a case with humidifiers, not do that...?
Glad I haven't sold my R13 yet. :'(
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: kilo
Date: 2012-01-22 10:01
Ouch!
Just a few hours to go. I'd suggest that you guard against sudden, extreme changes of temperature more than anything else. If you normally store it with humidifiers there's no harm in leaving them there but if you're relying on ambient humidity, I don't think trying to humidify it over the next day will really make that much difference. Wrap your case in a blanket if you have to transport it very far on a cold dry day.
Let us know how the repair turns out.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2012-01-22 12:54
Don't play it and keep it stable -- I agree with Kilo: don't add humidification to it if you don't normally have that available.
I would trace the crack with a pencil, and mark the ends of the crack with a line perpendicular to the crack (if the crack doesn't terminate in a post or another hole) just in case the crack closes...which can happen. You wouldn't be damaging the instrument to take the keys off and inspect the tone hole either.
FWIW -- despite excellent care and stable conditions I've had several horns crack. I'm not a bad or careless clarinetist because of it, and neither are you. My Festival A has almost the exact crack you describe, which was repaired by the Brannens in Chicago.
Recently I had the opportunity to sit around, read music, and compare instruments with a great guy who's flown around the world to play chamber music festivals -- he liked my A so much he wanted to know if I would give him first dibs if I parted with it.
Traumatizing? Yes. End of the world? No.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-22 13:14
Definitely not the end of the world - it may be an inconvenience, but it's not terminal.
Definitely mark the line of the crack with a pencil as they can close up and be near impossible to spot. I had an R13 come to me for a crack repair and they all closed up by the time I got it, so I had a job of finding them. I resorted to extreme measures to make it open up again by placing the joint in the freezer with the toneholes plugged up, then filled the bore with hot water to open the cracks up again. So save your repairer having to do this by drawing them on so they knwo where they'll be pinning it (which is more critical, but they still need to know if they're banding it).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-01-23 02:59
Thanks for all the helpful suggestions everyone! I have found that the crack indeed does not go into the bore, so pinning is not going to be necessary. My clarinet teacher said that all that will need to be done is for my repairman to put super glue into the crack and then fill it with grenadilla dust... no big deal. He did the same thing a year ago with a small crack on the inside of my barrel, and I haven't had any problems with it since then.
On Friday, we had snow and temperatures in the low 20's... Now, we have temperatures in the 40's with rain, thunderstorms, and fog... That's probably why it cracked. The climate changes here are insane.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-01-23 05:38
>> I have found that the crack indeed does not go into the bore, so pinning is not going to be necessary. <<
Going into the bore is not necesarily a reason to pin or not pin a crack. You need to prevent the crack from opening more so you need to have force holding it closed that is stronger than the force trying to open it. Glue alone can do that. Pinning can do that. Other methods can do that too. The thing is, you can't know how much force the crack is putting. For example a very small crack. Maybe there just a little force so it only cracked a little bit and now most or all of the tension is gone. But maybe a very small crack actually has a lot more tension left to become bigger, it just hasn't done that yet. you just can't know.
Many very good repairers now have experience for years of holding all sorts of cracks with glue only. Glues are just much better now than when pinning was "invented". IMO it's generally preferable to do the least "penetrating" repair and only do more if necessary i.e. start with glue only and only if there's a problem continue with pinning or banding.
Re marking the cracks, sure, it can help. But if you can see the end, it is usually not the actual end. Usually cracks are longer than what you can see, they have a part where they get so thin you just can't see it, even with a magnifier. If it ends in a tone hole than most likely it won't continue afterthe tone hole, but that is also not necessarily. It might continue visibly or invisibly after the tone hole. Either way, it should be possible to repair.
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-01-23 22:39
I understand completely... that info about tension in cracks is really interesting and makes a lot of sense. When I found the crack, I immediately marked the ends with a pencil... the "end" I had marked with my pencil hadn't extended anymore when I had my repairman look at it this morning, so hopefully, there isn't any more tension in there to make it open up again and keep extending. He also confirmed that it does not go into the bore, which is a big plus!
A colleague told me this morning about his old R13 that had a crack open up a few times right along the register key... now, THAT would be a much more serious problem.
I'm not entirely sure what Carl is going to do about it... I'm guessing he'll just glue it, but I'll find out when I get it back on Wednesday!
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-02-09 22:57
So, here's an update on that pesky crack:
It was glued, finished with grenadilla dust, no problem. Not even a day after the repair, the crack reopened, not getting any worse. The room where the repair was done was extremely humid and warm, so Carl told me that he probably just wasn't able to get glue into the crack because it closed up too much. He opened the reopened crack a little more with a razor blade, and filled it with glue and wood dust. Again, no problem.
I was playing in orchestra today when all the sudden, I heard a really loud snap come from my instrument. At first, I thought a spring had just snapped out of place. Then, I spied the repaired crack. Not only did it reopen, it spread all the way to the top of the joint and possibly into the bore.
Carl is going to put 4 pins into the crack. I get slightly sick thinking about what pinning involves, but I guess he has to do whatever it takes.
My question is this: For goodness' sake, will pinning stop that darn crack from opening again?!!!
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-02-09 23:07
Buffet has a five year warranty on the body if you're within this time frame you might consider replacement. Of course that's not without some problems as I saw on another thread.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-02-09 23:10
If I get a replacement joint, won't it play differently? I got it from WWBW in September of 2010.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2012-02-09 23:19
It is most probable that the wood of this instrument is unstable and under significant stress.
Glueing alone was always going to be suspect as a long term fix.
Even pinning is not infalible as the stress will likely be redirected to another side of the bore.
In a case like this I think carbon fibre banding is by far the most reliable solution. In areas where it is not practicable to fully band then one or two pins can still be used.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-02-09 23:32
If the crack can be pinned and filled while it's fully open, then that should reduce the likelyhood of it reopening. If it terminates in a tonehole, that should also reduce the risk of it spreading further down the joint (the tonehole can be bushed to make it airtight).
Pinning involves drilling several holes along the length of the line of the crack and threaded pins are screwed in at opposing angles to each other(like this / \ / \) to bind the crack together. The holes left from drilling are filled in to hide the entry points of the pins (although some repairers do drill out the other side of the joint surface so will have to fill in twice as many holes). The pins go through the joint wall and don't enter the bore and with a job well done and well finished the filled holes should only be noticeable under strong light - things like toneholes and pillar holes shouldn't be affected by this form of repair as the pins can be placed either side of them. Logos can remain unhrmed unless a pinning hole has been drilled through it or a crack runs across it. The Tosca badge can be removed if need be and then replaced once the pinning work has been done.
Another method of crack repair is carbon fibre banding which involves cutting several deep grooves around the joint and binding carbon fibre in the grooves, then once that's done the remainder of the grooves are filled in and papered down level with the joint surface to make the repair far less conspicuous than leaving the carbon fibre bands showing. The grooves have to be placed so they don't run across toneholes, so you do stand the chance of them running across the logo.
Have a read at this thread on carbon fibre banding:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=355364&t=355348
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-02-10 06:42
>> If I get a replacement joint, won't it play differently? <<
Not necesarily, but most likely that it will. This is why almost always players prefer to repair cracks instead of replacing the joint. It's also significantly less expensive (usually) unless done under warrenty.
So it seems that in this case, as described above, the tension was too much and the joint had too much force to open the crack than the force holding it closed (glue). Identical looking cracks might have been held just fine by the glue. It's just not possible to know that.
All the methods (gluing, pinning, carbon fiber banding) can be good. Banding is the most obvious if that's a consideration. Pinning can work just fine. Some people say pins can make the joint crack in another place, but here, where clarinet tend to crack more because of weather, I've only seen one crack that was possibly as a result of that.
If you go with pinning, it might be worth considering any carbon fiber bands in the future and position the pins this way if possible. Also there are some advantages to making the pin hole fillers slightly more visible... although it's possible to make so you'd never see them unless you knew they were there...
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-02-10 10:00
At least before Woodwind and Brasswind became a purely internet entity, it was easy to call and set up the return of the horn and they would completely reinstall the keys on the new joint and return it to you quite promptly. I believe they DO NOT do repair work any longer and this may affect the warranty work as well.
The other post on this forum described an issue with some really queer resistance on a replacement upper joint to a Tosca (it all sounded like a VERY unlikely scenario). Personally in this case I would opt for the new joint (crap shoot that it is).
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: RJShaw0
Date: 2012-02-10 12:59
As long as it's no cost to you, it would probably be a better idea to get the crack fixed. Then you won't have to adjust to a new joint and risk the uncertainty of it (I'm the one from the other thread with the replaced joint that Paul has mentioned). If the crack re-appears then it would probably still happen within the 5 year warranty period so then you could possibly get the joint replaced.
If you do get a new joint that is sub par though, I don't know what you can do to get a better, thankfully I didn't have to explore that avenue.
Oh, the joint will also come with your clarinets serial number on it if you are worried about non-matching serials (they have to make a whole new joint I think, it took me about 2 months for mine to get here but it might be quicker for you Americans)
Richard
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-02-10 13:40
Does anyone know if pinning the crack will void the warranty? In the case that the crack reopens even after being pinned, voiding the warranty would be rather bad.
After being on the phone for an hour with Buffet-USA agents and the technician, I would much rather have the crack pinned than get a new upper joint. I have a recital coming up in April, and I can't afford the prospect of still getting used to a new-ish clarinet during crunch time.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2012-02-10 14:16
bethmhil wrote:
> Does anyone know if pinning the crack will void the warranty?
It shouldn't provided that Buffet authorizes the repair. I believe at one time they used to pay to have cracks repaired under warranty rather than replacing joints or at least this is what Buffet did when my aunt's R13 cracked back in the 70's.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-02-10 14:25
Thing is, if you do get a replacement top joint which will effectively be like a new instrument and will need playing in, this is the worst time of year to be playing it in as it'll be more likely to crack. Same applies with buying any wooden instrument in the Winter - it's the worst time of year to buy an instrument.
I think you're best sticking with what you've got and having it repaired properly.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Globus
Date: 2012-02-10 15:25
Guy Chadash in NYC not only makes his own instruments. He does repair work too. And his work is first class.
Sounds to me like you're looking at a pretty standard type of crack that's easily repaired. Guy fixed a similar crack on my R13 and you would never know it unless you examined the horn very closely.
You can send your instrument to Guy by Fedex and he'll send it back to you by courier. Call and talk to him first. He's very approachable. You'll find his phone number on his Web site.
Believe me, it's not the end of the world. Best of luck.
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-02-11 03:11
Thank you everyone for your kind words and much support. You have seriously helped put my mind at ease.
This is the plan, for now: Because I don't want to be sending clarinets through the mail as well as breaking a new upper joint in during these cold months, I am not going to have a replacement joint sent for now. I'm going to get the okay from Buffet on Monday morning before anything is done, but instead of Woodwind-Brasswind acting as the 'middleman', Carl Thacker in Normal, IL will handle it. He will put pins into the crack, but this summer, I will contact Buffet to go ahead and send me a replacement upper joint. I'm not sure yet if I will want to go ahead and have the keys transferred from the old joint to the new one, but I will have the new one just in case the pins don't stabilize the crack.
Carl already has done several warranty repairs and key transfers through Buffet and other manufacturers in the past. Because he is affiliated with authorized Buffet retailers and knows technicians and executive sales-people at Buffet, I can't imagine there should be any problems. Fingers crossed!
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: donald
Date: 2012-02-11 04:18
I had a hairline crack that went into the B flat trill key (on and R13) and this repaired twice with glueing etc but would still open up. Rather than pin it Music Services in Wellington eventually installed a delrin tone hole insert into that hole, so if the crack moved it would not cause a leak from the tone hole. This instrument was used for between 4 and 7 hours a day for 5 years after this with no problems (including tours around NZ with NZ Opera in wintertime and performances at OU Symp and Clarinetfest in the US summer). Eventually that clarinet was sold to a student who, i understand, has had no problems. The tone hole insert gave me a great feeling of security that a minor crack would not cause major problems, and the repair tech (who has worked with Backun) felt that pinning would only add extra stress to the wood when it did decide to move.
dn
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-02-11 14:13
Sounds like the best solution.......... BRAVA !!!
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-02-17 02:51
The crack opened. Again. After having 4 pins inserted.
It is still very dry and cold in Illinois right now, so it's a very bad idea to have a new upper joint sent to me now.
I have no idea what to do, and am having a panic attack.
Perhaps this is nature's way of telling me that I need to drop out of college, abandon my dreams of clarinet professor-dom, and work at a fast-food joint for the rest of my life...
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2012-02-17 04:10
Stop having your panic attack and have a replacement joint sent. Just because your clarinet cracked, doesn't mean a replacement will.
I don't believe this don't buy a clarinet in the winter argument. I have sold dozens of clarinets during winter months and only a very small fraction have had a problem with cracking. I've been a dealer for over 12 years, and have had probably no more than four customers whose instruments developed a crack.
I think it is time to get the replacement joint and move on.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-02-17 04:20
Presuming that a new upper joint will play significantly differently (I know this is pessimistic, but I'm not expecting the difference to be good), and that I have a recital coming up in April and several performances before then... I will be breaking in a brand new clarinet joint.
This isn't bad timing just because of the weather...
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2012-02-17 05:07
It must be quite frustrating for you, but I agree with Walter.
I'm getting slightly off topic here, but I've recently become a proponent of oiling. The folks from Buffet say don't oil. I heard it personally from a Buffet rep a couple years ago. When my R-13 was new back in the early 70s, the only oils available (or the only ones I knew about) were mineral oils. I'm not sure they did much good, and perhaps they did some harm. Some of the newer oils, such as the products of Omar Henderson (no, I don't work for him or sell his products) are far superior. I've used Bore Doctor and Grenad-Oil on my older instrument and on my newer Fobes barrel, and they're the real deal. I wish products like these had been available 30 and 40 years ago.
There will be some who will agree with me and others who will disagree, but I think you should keep the new joint and the rest of your instrument properly oiled, especially when there is a lack of humidity. It may not prevent a future crack, but it will help to keep the wood in good shape.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-02-17 06:22
I'd probably ask Buffet USA for a new horn for the fear that the new upper joint won't be a good match. For $6000, whatever the cost was, it seems only fair that you should be able to test a few horns.
How is the grain of the joint? Are there any curves or is it pretty straight?
I'd call Buffet USA tomorrow and be nice at first then if they won't replace the horn let them know you will be writing some nasty things - on this board! Since there are several symphony players here we too can write and call them. Keep their phones ringing all day.
Don't be afraid to keep asking for the top, top, and finally the head of Buffet USA. I really believe things will work out and this piece of wood wasn't cured correctly, such as not long enough.
Keep us posted.
By the way, how does this horn compare to your R-13? Have the cracks effected the sound quality, more resistant? Whatever info you can give us.
My dealings with Buffet have actually been very positive. You do have to get to the right person.
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Author: ttay1122
Date: 2012-02-17 07:48
Yikes! This thread just gets worse and worse! Sorry to hear about your Tosca! Hope you get it figured out! But remember this is not your first clarinet and probably wont be your last so one stubborn crack is not going to ruin your whole life! Just wait it out and see what can be done. But you have my sympathy, I know if this happened to me I would spiral into an endless depression. But good luck!
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-02-17 14:43
Bob, there is a definite difference between the wood of the top and lower joints. The wood on the lower joint is very shiny & smooth and "buttery" to the touch. The wood on the top joint has almost a brittle feeling and look to it-- the wood grains look about the same on both joints. Perhaps it could use an oiling, like Clarinetguy said? I don't know.
Does anyone know how much of an effect the upper joint has on tone? My instincts say that the upper joint has more of an effect than the lower joint, since it's closer to the source of the sound.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: kimber
Date: 2012-02-17 15:44
Did it crack back open just from sitting and slowly warming back up to temp after you received it or did it crack open during playing? What did Carl have to say?
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2012-02-17 18:56
You can't separate the effects of upper and lower joints.
The clarinet is a complete system of mouthpiece, barrel, u/l joints and bell (and player). All parts are interdependent, that's why professional instruments (well hand made ones anyway) are built, adjusted and tuned as a complete entity.
Arguably the problem of replacing just one joint is that this joint has never been integrated into the "system" in the making of the clarinet.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-02-17 21:48
Norman Smale - good call, this is why I told Beth to get a new clarinet and not just the upper joint.
Buffet actually has musicians test the horns before shipment; thus the reason for getting a complete setup, not just the upper joint. It's worth the painstaking effort to get a complete matching setup.
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-02-18 02:01
Well, I took it to Carl again, and this is what he said:
He thinks that even though I've been swabbing the clarinet like crazy, the wood has been absorbing too much water and then expanding way too much and making the glue fall apart, which is why the crack keeps "opening"-- the crack isn't necessarily opening on its own or getting worse. This could be from not being oiled enough, or just from the wood being poor quality. He treated the inside of the bore with a stick covered in beeswax to try to stop the wood from absorbing so much moisture. He said the pins should stop the crack from spreading into the bore (should doesn't necessarily mean will...). He told me to just keep an eye on the crack, but to continue playing on it. He doesn't think it will get any worse and that I don't need to fret about it. He doesn't know if he wants to continue trying to glue it, seeing as how the glue refuses to hold. It might just be a situation where the crack is there and slightly open, but won't get any worse... hopefully!
Bob, your info about matching wood for both joints makes much sense. Carl agrees with me-- the wood on the upper joint is much grainier than the wood on the lower joint, so is definitely a worse quality piece of wood. Unfortunately, because I got the clarinet through WWBW, they will only permit a new upper joint being sent to me, since that's what is causing problems... or, that's what I was told. I guess they have the final say so on what is sent to me, since I purchased it through them. I will definitely find a way to have the key transfer done locally through Carl in the summer, but I refuse to do business with WWBW ever again.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2012-02-18 16:45
clarinetguy wrote:
>
You know, with your jumping to wild conclusions without any sort of rational evidence and not even waiting for a response from the manufacturer ...
I'm glad you're not my customer ...
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-02-18 16:57
Wow Clarinetguy. This is a lot to think about!
I've seen the wood of new E11's and R13's, and the wood of my Tosca (on both the upper and lower joints) has a totally different look-- the finish is full of beautiful black and brown striations that I do not see on the "lower" models. There could be a number of different things that could have gone into this, but I do not think the wood (or joint) was mistaken. I will notify Buffet about my own observations and Carl's observations.
Could oiling the inside of the bore help at this point? The big thing right now is to stop the wood from absorbing so much water and expanding-- once that stops, the wood will calm down, and then the glue will hold better in a couple of weeks.
I tried 9 different Toscas when I went to WWBW in 2010. I never really paid attention to the "quality" of the wood as much as I was paying attention to tone. The particular clarinet I chose had a singing quality to it-- the harmonics of the tone went up considerably higher on my chosen clarinet than any of the other Toscas I tried. All the others had a "dead" tone to them.
This is why I am so hesitant to have a new joint sent to me. As lucky as I was to find a Tosca with such a beautiful tone, that tone could be lost with a new upper joint. :(
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: ABerry
Date: 2012-02-18 18:06
Hi Beth,
I completely understand your situation…Back in the dark ages (1975), long before there were Toscas, Prestiges, Festivals and Vintage models, I purchased a brand new 150th Anniversary Model R13. After couple of years, 2 cracks opened up from the top two side trill keys. I was living in Vermont at the time, it was the January prior to my senior recital the following May. Like you, my instructor and I chose this clarinet based on tone, so I was reluctant to return it. I ended up taking it back to the store in NYC, the owner explained gluing might work, but a combination of both gluing and pinning would work. So, couple of weeks later, I had my upper joint back without out any noticeable change in tone quality.
There are differing schools of thought regarding oiling the bore, your repair tech could advise you on that. Personally, I do oil the bore as well as the outside of my clarinets.
I hope this helps,
Allan
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Author: Wicked Good ★2017
Date: 2012-02-19 17:29
Beth, my take on this is that you'll much be happier than you may expect, with a replacement upper joint. I own a Bb Tosca with a replaced upper joint, so I may have some germane experience.
I bought the instrument used, on trial from a board sponsor, for a considerable savings over the price of a new Tosca. The upper joint had cracked and was replaced by Buffet under warranty, but apparently the original owner didn't want an instrument with a replaced joint, and so traded it for a new clarinet. The new joint is stamped with the same serial number as the original; in a lighter stroke than on the original lower joint.
Of course, I have no idea how the original upper joint played. The grain on the replacement upper joint is somewhat wider than that of the original lower joint. However, it seems to me that the new joint is a fantastic acoustical match. I've now been playing the instrument for over a year with no issues, entirely in the Northeast USA.
Will it ever crack again? Who knows? My workhorse 1976 R13 Bb has only one hairline crack in its bell, and that was my fault when I tripped down some stairs from the college practice rooms while carrying it, back in 1980. None of my other wooden Buffet, E & S, Selmer, Normandy, and Patricola clarinets, have ever cracked in the years I've played them. Not yet, anyway.
My point in all this blabbering is that I fully agree with posts here by Mr. Grabner and others. Just get the replacement joint and have the keys transferred. Odds are that you'll be perfectly happy with the result. Best wishes for a happy ending to your saga,
Dale
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2012-02-19 19:04
Wicked Good wrote:
> Beth, my take on this is that you'll much be happier than you
> may expect, with a replacement upper joint. I own a Bb Tosca
> with a replaced upper joint, so I may have some germane
> experience.
My son's Festival cracked all the way through a year or so after purchase, so Buffet replaced the top joint. I was lucky enough to have Francois Kloc of Buffet do the key transfer and setup, and afterwards the horn was BETTER than it was originally.
Your mileage may differ, of course, but this is just to show that all is not necessarily lost.
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Author: Wicked Good ★2017
Date: 2012-02-19 20:08
"...much be happier..." Yeah, I proof-read that before posting - not. :-)
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-02-19 20:23
Really Mark! Carl told me that he is on a first name basis with Francois-- he did some clarinet repair master classes with Francois a few years ago. He told me if anyone can take care of this, Francois can. I don't know if Carl has contacted him yet, but I will definitely try to persuade Carl to get a hold of him. :D
Thank you everyone for all your kind words and support! You have helped me through quite a crisis, and I am feeling confident now that this will turn out fine... or even, thinking optimistically, better than I expect. Thank you all again.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-02-20 00:34
It's under warranty, I thnk it's for 5 years. I'd call Buffet USA and totally skip the store, wwbw. If Buffet says to bring it to the store tell them NO because of picking out a matched set.
When talking to Buffet some symphony pros go to Buffet and pick out a dozen or more of these special preseected horns and then Buffet sends these horns to ssorted stores. I'd trust one of these stores that sell these tested horns from Buffet.
Buffet knows who these people are so tell Buffet to send you a hand picked horn from one of these stores. If you can do this, you may get an even better horn that you have now.
When cracks hit tone holes it can effect your sound, add stuffness, and perhaps a constant leaking horn.
It seems that your repairman has done a very good job, but it's time to make your move to a hand picked horn from these top symphony players.
I don't want to give out the names of these people, so ask Buffet how to find these selected horns.
Keep us posted here.
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-02-25 23:32
I know ya'll are probably sick by now of hearing about all this cracking business, but here is the latest update--
The clarinet is still playing fine, the crack has not spread into the bore, but the glue is continuing to break down. Last Thursday, I noticed that the glue sealing the crack around the tone hole was gone and the crack was opened again. I was worried that the pad alone would not make it seal and leaking would result, so I took it back to Carl. He is currently putting carbon fiber bands around the crack. This probably should have been done in the first place, but he did not know that the crack would be so stubborn to repair, so he is doing the repair for free.
Makes me sad because I know the repair is not going to make the clarinet look very pretty, but hopefully, this will stop that crack once and for all.
Carl was able to talk to Francois Kloc about the entire situation earlier this week, and he guaranteed that whatever happened, everything would be taken care of. I am still going to wait until after my recital in April to order a new upper joint, but at this point, I'm not too concerned. I understand that the new upper joint will sound different at first, but after it is broken in, it will sound and feel completely normal after a few months.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-02-26 04:42
>> I understand that the new upper joint will sound different at first, but after it is broken in, it will sound and feel completely normal after a few months. <<
It might, this is just a guess. It could imediately sound great and maybe even better than your current one. It might not play as well and never play as well as the original. It could play worse when you try, but after you get used to it you might like it even more than the original. There are a lot of options and the only thing known is that any one of them is an option and you can't really know what will happen. You can only guess and hope.
Actually, if the crack never changes enough to affect the way the instrument plays, I'd re-consider "gambling" on the new joint. If you get the new joint anyway, how about just keeping in case it ever becomes necessary, though there is more to do with cracks and cracked tone holes, for example change the top of the tone hole to prevent the crack from being there compeltely.
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Author: donald
Date: 2012-02-26 05:12
Read my post above from 11/2/12- do this and you won't have to worry about leaks etc. The clarinet described in that post was played once by Frank Celata (SSO assoc principal, has played principal with London Symphony) who thought it was a fine instrument.
dn
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-02-26 05:14
That's exactly what my plan is, actually! I would rather just keep the new upper joint as a back up in case my original upper joint still has issues. After having the carbon bands put on it, I certainly hope it won't!
The only thing is... the suspense of how well the new upper joint "could" play will drive me crazy, and key transfers back and forth get to be pretty expensive...
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: LJBraaten
Date: 2012-02-27 05:00
...or, have the keys transferred (wouldn't Buffet spring the bill under the replacement warranty?), and keep the repaired one as a backup in case the new one doesn't sound right after a reasonable trial.
Laurie
Laurie (he/him)
Post Edited (2012-02-27 15:14)
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-02-28 03:45
Okay. I give up. Game over.
The crack opened again... after being glued twice... after being pinned in 4 places, and glued again... and finally, after having 4 carbon fiber bands set into the wood.
I'm calling Buffet tomorrow morning. This is absolutely ridiculous.
Laurie, I will ask Buffet about having them pay for the key transfer. I would think they should, since the clarinet is still under a warranty...?
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2012-02-28 11:47
I'm hope the new joint and transfer goes smoothly Beth -- you've endured a lifetime's worth of crack frustration in that one horn!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-09-18 01:12
A new update!
So, the crack had never really "reopened" after the carbon fiber bands were put into the wood-- Carl never reglued the crack, since he knew the glue would eventually fall apart again anyway. The clarinet played beautifully for all my performances last spring, and I had no problems with it.
But not too long after my last update in late February, I notified Buffet about all that had happened, and I was told that they would begin making a new upper joint for me. And then in May, surprise!-- Carl called and told me that they had received the new one at their shop in Bloomington.
Although I ended up paying for the key transfer and repad of the upper joint (stupid WWBW!), it was completely worth it. The wood is visually gorgeous, the inside of the bore is still shiny and smooth.
And most importantly... the horn plays beautifully! With the matching barrel that Buffet sent with the new upper joint, it plays just as well, if not better than the old one.
I said so before, but I'll say it again-- Thank you all for your helpful, warm comments. Since I can look back on this now... You really helped me through a very difficult time, and it means a lot to me. Thank you again.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: Wicked Good ★2017
Date: 2012-09-18 17:18
Excellent news.
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There are only 10 kinds of people in the world:
Those who understand binary math, and those who don't.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2012-09-18 17:20
Just a final thought. Since you are not in a clarinet friendly weather environment seems like you should now trade your instrument in for a Greenline and live happily ever after crack free.
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