 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: LJBraaten
Date: 2012-01-28 17:44
I now play a Yamaha 72 (66.5 mm barrel), which like my last clarinet plays slightly flat on most notes, no matter which mouthpiece I use (M13 lyre, B45. 5RV lyre, HS*). (Note: I know it's me, not the clarinet since that old clarinet always played sharp before my 40 year lay off.) I got a cheap 64.5 inch barrel, and it made no noticeable difference. I went to the local woodwind shop and the owner found a 60.5 mm barrel (spare on an Evette), whose bore appears to line up perfectly with the Yamaha. On his tuner my intonation was nearly perfect and more consistent than I've ever seen it.
But.... at rehearsal later that day, after warming up a little, the three of us third clarinets played a C (with my barrel pulled out since I know that at least one of the others plays a little flat), and I was so noticeably out of tune (sharp) with the rest that it got the attention of the front row. So I went back to the longer barrel and we sounded fine (passably in tune).
Since being in tune with the other clarinets is the top priority, I will obviously not use that shorter barrel in the concert band. The question is whether I should keep it or test something in the 62-63 range? I'm thinking the other clarinets could change, but I also note that in the two places I play, concert band and occasionally at church, my intonation has not been a problem. Is it possible that there might be a playing condition, or time that I would wish I had that shorter barrel? Could the tuners both be off? Or do I not know how to read the tuner accurately? What are the acceptable variances of flat and sharp from correct pitch on the tuner?
Notes: the clarinetist that is flat just returned to playing and her embouchure is still weak, is it possible she won't play as flat after a month or so? I've been playing again for over a year, so I doubt that my embouchure will change much. Also, my tuner is a android app (gStrings), and it showed my pitch with the longer barrel as a little higher (still flat, though) than the tuner at the shop. I assume the shop tuner is higher quality, but my experience playing with the other clarinetists now makes me wonder if my tuner is more accurate.
Any input on any of the (many) questions above would be appreciated.
Laurie
(Mr Laurie J Braaten)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2012-01-28 17:56
Hi Laurie,
If you play slightly flat, then I would be considering a 65.5 mm Yamaha barrel. If you were significantly flat I might suggest 64 or more...but usually 1 mm has a big impact.
Since you've already expended energy with other barrels that haven't panned out, I would suggest that you buy a Yamaha barrel (on approval) and not mess around with cheap or mismatched brands.
That, or contact a boutique barrel provider and get something that will not only adjust your pitch appropriately but may add considerably to your sound.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-01-28 18:23
The real world is MOST important. So you tune to whatever is around you IF there is a prevailing pitch that is (if everyone in the section has a different pitch than it's more than the barrel you need to change!).
Firstly I prefer to tune to a generated sound so YOU KNOW how you sound against something. If your tuner doesn't do this (I know the app doesn't) get one that does. It is PARAMOUNT to hear the vibrations that are generated by the level of 'out of tuneness.'
THEN...... whatever you do to get a good sound at home, you then need to extrapolate that journey into what you need to do to sound ok in your section (such as playing high in the high notes, flat in the low notes, flat whenever they play loud....etc.).
Even in the best of ensembles, everyone needs to be 'plastic' in terms of pitch and rhythm to a achieve 'oneness.'
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: LJBraaten
Date: 2012-01-30 19:08
Thanks for the responses. I'll take that barrel back, and wait to see if I need a shorter one later. The idea of testing Yamaha barrels on approval sounds good, but that would be pushing the envelope on clarinet expenditures right now, since that would cost considerably more than the used barrel I just purchased. Or, if I can get a good deal on a returnable 64-65mm Backun (eBay), I may try that instead.
Laurie (he/him)
Post Edited (2012-01-30 19:44)
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Author: LJBraaten
Date: 2012-02-18 20:33
Here's a report on my results. I returned the very short barrel. I ended up getting a 65 mm Backun cocobolo ringless barrel with a beautiful blond streak in it  . With constant mentoring with the tuner, and comparison of barrels, I discovered that when I first start to play (after after a few minutes of warm up) I am a little flat with the 66.5 mm stock barrel. With the 65mm barrel (blondie), I am either right on or can adjust into tune at several octaves (pulling out barrel and bell slightly). After an hour I am sharp, and after two hours even sharper. Between 1-2 hours I am sharp enough that I have to make adjustments even on the longer barrel, and the shorter barrel is usually out quite a bit (1-3 mm), approximating or exceeding the length of the longer barrel. I was quite surprised at this since I figured with a tired embouchure I wouldn't be so sharp. I guess that despite what I sense, the instrument is still warming up for a full two hours!
We have a two hour concert coming, with an intermission in the middle. I thought about starting with the shorter barrel, and blind adjusting it after a few songs (pulling out barrel and bell to usual spots), then switch barrels at the intermission. But since some of the other players in the band start out a little flat, it's probably not worth it to use the shorter barrel to get hypothetically in tune. I'll stick with the longer one for the next few practice sessions and continue to monitor my intonation.
Oh, and as far as other advantages of the cocobolo barrel: I don't notice a difference in tone quality, and neither does my wife (blind test). It might be a little less resistant. I will continue to experiment. I've only played with my Vandoren 5RV Lyre mpc., I will see what happens on my M13 Lyre.
Laurie
Laurie (he/him)
Post Edited (2012-02-18 20:59)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-02-19 03:57
LJBraaten wrote:
> I was quite surprised at this since I figured with a tired
> embouchure I wouldn't be so sharp. I guess that despite what I
> sense, the instrument is still warming up for a full two
> hours!
It doesn't surprise me to that you may be getting sharper as you get tired. As your embouchure control starts to flag, you tend to try to compensate and may begin to pinch. In addition, a reed, as it gets wetter and wetter from playing on it, can begin to get more resistant, which also tends to make you use more pressure, driving the pitch up. As they stiffen, reeds can also develop a kind of falseness of pitch - going sharp in softer dynamics as you use less air to produce the sound, a little like a "false" string that changes pitch as soon as the bow leaves it and it starts ringing freely.
Karl
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Author: LJBraaten
Date: 2012-02-20 16:46
Karl, wow, thanks, the opposite of my intuition. Is it possible that as my embochure gets stronger won't play as sharply?
Laurie
Laurie (he/him)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-02-23 17:13
It's most likely that you're going sharper because of some combination of fatigue-driven pinching and excess reed resistance. So, be aware of the response of the reed you're playing on and, if it starts to feel stuffy or hard to focus, change to another one. Monitor your fatigue level and, if you feel your control slipping away, rest - put the instrument on your lap for a few bars and let the circulation get back to normal in your lip muscles. If my suggestion is right (I'm, after all, saying all of this without having ever heard you play) this isn't so much a problem of "strength" as endurance coupled with awareness of your reed.
The sharpness you describe almost certainly is not because of barrel length or on overheated instrument, although your initial flatness probably is. If that causes a problem, a barrel a half mm or full mm shorter may get you started a little sharper.
Karl
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Author: RefacerMan
Date: 2012-02-23 17:45
It's quite
possible that as you play longer your reed is warping causing the rise in pitch.
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